The "real" reason Reid should be sacked

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H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

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Martian said:
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Paul Lemon Fan Club said:
Boi said:
Ok, I'll leave the discussion to the "Reid out group" then. But is it never dull to have the same thing repeated over and over again: "Reid out, sack the monkey, dull football, mid-table results, falling out with players, bring back Summerbee, sack Heath, sack Saxton, Murray out, bring in George Burley (oops, David O'Leary), last season was poor ..." And if someone tries to suggest differently it's: "digging a hole for yourself, blind, idiot - just to name a few of the milder things you have be prepared for.
don't forget the "where were we before Reid took over", and "look what Alex Ferguson did at Man Utd" , they are equally tired old arguments.
There is nothing more "tired" and "old" than constantly pointing out that we just had a crap season, which is all you are (again) doing with your stats. We all know that, and it doesn't even need working out.

At least the regular counterpoint about what we have acheived under Reid requires a bit understanding about football, industry and our historical performance as a club, so its marginally less tiresome than the above.
I personally would like to ask you three questions

Are you are happy with a perennial fight against relegation?

No I'm not (why is that question even relevant after one season in the last five?).

What hope can you possibly draw from the current situation, that leads you to believe things are going to improve?

You know damn well, because I've written it here again, and again, and again, and again....To summarise (again!) : a good squad, some excellent individuals, past success, willingess to spend reasonably but not suicidally, thick skinned/motivated manager, consistently motivated team, intent to play good football (has been acheived before), great facilities

Do you prefer pass and move football or the long ball game?

Pass and move

We have not played well for 20 months under Peter Reid now.

You missed out the word "consistently", and so what ? He stuffed up with some signings/sales when we were around seventh, and that legacy lasts months. He's now trying to correct it, which will take weeks and hopefully, result in progress for months.

Thats probably what pisses me off most of all about the "Reid Outs" who know they are because its tattooed on their foreheads - short termism (noting that 20 months is very short term in building a football club).
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

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Weremuthe said:
One of the main arguments from the reid camp is who would we get to replace him. Well on his current run of 3 wins this year, scoring 12 goals
and losing 11 games, Krusty the Klown couldn't do any worse.

If Bob is not happy for Reid to take us down again then he should gamble on someone who maybe untried at the top level or coaches overseas (as Houlier & Wenger did) because (reprise) nobody could do much worse.
Maybe he doesn't see it as a foregone conclusion that Reid will take us down, and maybe he's in substantial company in that.
 

GipseT

Winger
I wan't Reid in for 6 mor games whatever hapens but if Sunderland are still strugeling by then i wan't him out... and i think i have said before why i thought that that was the best for the team (mid summer)...

Ok Done some quick counting last 6 years... (97/98)

Middlesbrough 19 prem
-50,935

Scum 2 Prem
52,32

Everton 15 Prem
+1,465

Bolton 1 first
-5,388

Westham 14 prem
+12,472

Tottenham 10 Prem
-44,7155

Birmingham 10 first
-14,535

Liverpool 4 Prem
-62,32

Sunderland 18 Prem (relegated)
-29,925

Now to the lost or gaind amount U should add the walue of the curent squad to se the progres over the last years. Make of it what U want. I think it shows that Reid is nither botom or top... i'm still in for 6 more games to se what he will be offering this season....

(picked teams and amount of years on radom)
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

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Martian said:
I would like to see these thousands who are still pro-Reid as well.

Granted there may be 5000 of you, that's against at least 50,000 who want him out in my guesstimation.
Great estimating skills there - suggest you get someone else to buy your shopping for you, or you're likely to come home with 20,000 bananas for next week.
 
L

Laddie de Lumley

Guest
Don´t know if its been posted on this thread already cos to be quite honest I can´t be arsed to read all the posts but....... the fact that Reidy has a small(ish) but very decisive amount of shares in the club might have something to do with the fact uncle Bob seems reluctant to make a move on him... and god knows what other security he has built into his contract... just a thought or two like...
 
M

Martian

Guest
Hetzes,

Your a stubborn bugger, i'll give you that.

Reply to some of your points:

-Four seasons in the Premier League, I thank Mr Reid for getting us there, I think his greatest achievement was in his first season at the club on a shoestring budget. However of those 4 seasons in the Premier League, two were spent in a relegation battle and this season has all the hallmarks of another one.

-Peter Reid has spent more money than every previous Sunderland Manager combined in the history of the club. That is why he has done better than most Managers. I believe Dennis Smith, if he was given Peter reid's budget would been able to achieve more.

-Peter Reid has proven his preference for the long ball game, it has been in evidence for years. We will never pass and move under peter Reid it is not his Philosophy and he does not have the know how to implement it. We played some good football in the first division, I agree, but then so did West Brom last season. The Premier League is a different ball game.

-As for the current squad I would say we have 5 Premiership quality players and the rest are Nationwide League standard.

-As for short memories, well how long can you carry on using that argument? Football moves on very quickly it waits for nobody, if you live in the past you become found out, which is what has happened to us recently. Seven and a half years is a long time in football management and the game has completely changed in that time. It is time for people to realise that Reid has done his job and the club needs to move forward with fresh Management.
 

Stir

Midfield
impossible to judge how many of a crwod were pro or anti Reid, suspect those singing "you don't know what you're doing' weren't too convinced. All the supporters who turned up supported Sunderland AFC, not Peter Reir, in 5 years time Reid won't be there but the fanes will be. Or maybe Reid will still be there, and as suggested by Boi Reid will be like Ferguson and maybe Sunderland will have just won the double again.

I feel EVERYONE thought that Sunderland over achieved the first season up. The team played well and got higher than anyone could have dreamt about. The second year, to Xmas was good consolidation of that, even steady progress. Since then there has been no progress. The team is no stronger, the tactics have not progressed. Someone has a signature saying if you don't progress you go backwards. Sunderland as a team have regressed under Reid over the last 18+ months. If everyone is also advancing then the gap is getting bigger.

Sunderland should be buying Viana, not Newcastle. A 19 year old lad who makes the rest of the team play. When did Reid ever buy that sort of player ? Lee Clark maybe ?
Boro have signed Maccarone, young strong goalscorer, why not Sunderland, bigger team, more future, must be easier sell.

What ever the reasons for not getting players Reid has failed to get them. To score 29 goals in 40 league games is should not acceptable, even to those who see some bigger plan.

Those bigger plan people should ask where in the bigger plan 4th bottom was, and where 29 goals in 40 games was.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Seems the anti-Reids have had a good session today practising their arguments.

However the stats given at the top of this thread only "prove" what we all knew all along. That last season was very poor.

I've still read nothing that

a) I didn't know already
b) Is enough to make me reconsider my position

Other than that and until something actually does change, I'm truly bored with the in/out argument.

REID TO STAY. :eek:
 

CalAl

Midfield
I have cut and pasted the main set of statistics onto my webpage just incase this thread is not made gold, though I am sure it will be. Thank you to those who did the original digging for the facts and from whom I plagiarized. Check my profile for the link.
 
M

Martian

Guest
This old Pro/Anti-Reid chestnut

For starters the 11000 fans missing from the SOL on saturday are hardly pro-reid either are they?
 

Stir

Midfield
Martian said:
This old Pro/Anti-Reid chestnut

For starters the 11000 fans missing from the SOL on saturday are hardly pro-reid either are they?
mebbe they were just on their hols, or at the Notting Hill carnival
 
M

Martian

Guest
Laputian said:
Seems the anti-Reids have had a good session today practising their arguments.

However the stats given at the top of this thread only "prove" what we all knew all along. That last season was very poor.

I've still read nothing that

a) I didn't know already
b) Is enough to make me reconsider my position

Other than that and until something actually does change, I'm truly bored with the in/out argument.

REID TO STAY. :eek:
You just thrive on being stubborn, Just like a certain Mr Reid himself

That is why you love him. :lol: :lol:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Martian said:
You just thrive on being stubborn, Just like a certain Mr Reid himself

That is why you love him. :lol: :lol:
True, anyone who remains true to him/herself has my approval. Reid has shown an abundance of this quality. I love all things SAFC, even errant alien scoundrels like yourself. *

:wink:

*Only in a very manly sort of way, mind you.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Laputian said:
I've still read nothing that.................

a) I didn't know already
b) Is enough to make me reconsider my position

Are you:

a) Peter Reid
b) Adrian Heath
c) Peter Reid's boyfriend
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Gunter Berzins said:
Are you:

a) Peter Reid
b) Adrian Heath
c) Peter Reid's boyfriend
Answer: None of the above

Question:

Are you

a) Peter Reid's mam looking for Peter Reid?
b) Peter Reid's mam looking for Adrian Heath?
c) Just a guy looking for a gay partner?

:wink:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
heh, heh!!

Got to laugh really, however I do admire your loyalty no matter how misplaced I believe it to be!
 
M

Martian

Guest
Laputian said:
Martian said:
You just thrive on being stubborn, Just like a certain Mr Reid himself

That is why you love him. :lol: :lol:
True, anyone who remains true to him/herself has my approval. Reid has shown an abundance of this quality. I love all things SAFC, even errant alien scoundrels like yourself. *

:wink:

*Only in a very manly sort of way, mind you.
I'm certainly true to myself in an alien kind of way, however your love is enough to send me back to the Red Planet at the speed of light :lol: :lol:
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

Guest
Martian said:
Hetzes,

Your a stubborn bugger, i'll give you that.

Reply to some of your points:

-Four seasons in the Premier League, I thank Mr Reid for getting us there, I think his greatest achievement was in his first season at the club on a shoestring budget. However of those 4 seasons in the Premier League, two were spent in a relegation battle

You cant really count the Roker Park one - it would have been a miracle if we had stayed up. However we then had a couple of great seasons in Div 1 (which I enjoyed as much as any in the PL/Div1, BTW) followed by a couple of successful seasons in the PL, followed by one poor season. Note how few words there are in that last bit compared to the rest.

and this season has all the hallmarks of another one.

You can work that out after just two games (both fairly reasonable performances BTW) ? You should be on the telly.

-Peter Reid has spent more money than every previous Sunderland Manager combined in the history of the club. That is why he has done better than most Managers. I believe Dennis Smith, if he was given Peter reid's budget would been able to achieve more.

Rubbish. As you well know, the base "cost of living" in the PL is way, way, way (x 10) higher than any other league in which an SAFC manager has managed SAFC in absolute terms (as is the income), so that statement is utterly meaningless.


-Peter Reid has proven his preference for the long ball game, it has been in evidence for years. We will never pass and move under peter Reid it is not his Philosophy and he does not have the know how to implement it. We played some good football in the first division, I agree, but then so did West Brom last season. The Premier League is a different ball game.

You even contradict yourself! We played some great football in Div 1, under...who??. We murdered Chelsea at home in the PL - how many long balls did you see in that game? PR likes the option of a tall centre forward for crosses, but this is not the long ball game. We have lapsed into the latter from time to time because "our passing game" (how many times have you heard PR mention that - I stopped counting at around 30) wasn't working. If you'd said "he tried to get a passing game going but it didn't work" I'd have agreed with you, but to simply call him a one trick pony where the trick is a long punt upfield by design, sorry but no.

-As for the current squad I would say we have 5 Premiership quality players and the rest are Nationwide League standard.

Well luckily enough for us, all but the top 5-6 have too. Must say a lot about the quality of the NW league, if so many international players have that quality.

-As for short memories, well how long can you carry on using that argument? Football moves on very quickly it waits for nobody, if you live in the past you become found out, which is what has happened to us recently. Seven and a half years is a long time in football management and the game has completely changed in that time. It is time for people to realise that Reid has done his job and the club needs to move forward with fresh Management.

For as long as it is relevant. The rest ofthat para is just pure waffle - "football waits for nobody" - what are you, the Poet Laureate ??? Its been essentially the same game for over a century, in which time entire industries have come and gone.

If it is time for people to realise anything, its that they should ignore propaganda and meaningless "its time for change" type arguments (always a poor substitute for rational and substantive argument) and sit and look at where we came from, what we are now, what is happening to the industry around us, and where we can realistically expect to go, and whether the performance of our most recent management over its tenure justifies them having a crack at it.
 
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Great estimating skills there - suggest you get someone else to buy your shopping for you, or you're likely to come home with 20,000 bananas for next week.
LOL, HBT.

Good to see you are still fighting the good fight and have lost none of your stubbornness.

I've said it before - I hope you are right about PR and SAFC but I firmly believe you are not. PL results will have the final word.

In the meantime, my lasting wish is that SAFC fans get behind anyone who wears the red and white stripes for the full 90 minutes.
 
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