The "real" reason Reid should be sacked

Discussion in 'Gold' started by smoker, Aug 27, 2002.

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  1. On that we are totally agreed. And I've already registered a new name just in case our season turns to total shit :lol:
  2. I know three people who didnt renew, none of them are anti-Reid. They basically thought they'd wait until the team started performing again before shelling out more hard earned squids on them. That may or may not go along with replacing Reid, but it isn't a primary factor for them.

    I'd imagine that quite a few of the "missing" 11000 are in a similar position - I wouldn't just assume that you can call them all Reid-outs. Of course I could also point out that the SOL will be full next weekend so there musn't be any extra Reid-outs for you to count after all (thought I won't as its just as crap an argument as yours).

    Final thought - maybe the 11000 are all bound and gagged in ALS Towers??? :eek:
  3. smoker

    smoker Striker

    I fear this thread has gone off on a tangent and turned into a bog-standard Reid-in Reid-out who can shout louder competition. :lol:

    My point of posting these stats is not to state the obvious - ie last season was crap. Otherwise, why post the comparison with Smith, Robbo and Gullit? The point was to i) draw a factual comparison between Reid and other managers commonly regarded by SAFC fans as a load of crap and ii) encourage pro-Reid people to question why these managers deserved to be sacked and Reid doesn't. I also tried to attack the myth that Murray is somehow short-changing Reid and is therefore a viable scapegoat for failures on the football side.

    As I said to Boi you can't just write off last season like accidentally stepping in a dog shit. Poor results don't happen by bad luck alone, they are the consequence of management decisions. Even if you are prepared to give Reid more time (a sentimental, not a business decision IMHO), you should not forget last season's lesson in the consequences of Reid's dodgy management decisions 99-01. If you choose to forget the lesson and sit by deferentially with your fingers crossed as Reid repeats the same mistakes we are heading for trouble.

    Someone casually dismissed the facts by saying, if you went far enough back you could make Reid look glowing. Well, if you go back far enough Walter Smith was winning every trophy in sight with Rangers, Gullit was winning silverware at Chelsea and Bryan Robson had Boro in two cup finals. Makes Reid's two 7th places look pathetic.

    For a long time, the pro-Reids have whinged on about us "anti-Reids" (I prefer to term us "experienced pragmatists" :wink: ) not providing facts to back up our beliefs. Now I have got off my arse and found them...and they don't like it up 'em Cap'n Mainwaring! :wink:
  4. Martian

    Martian Guest

    Jesus, you accuse me of waffling, I really don't have the stamina to reply in total, but I will say your argument is fragile at best. I am confident the vast majority will sit on my side of the fence on this one and you know it. :wink:
  5. Smoker, don't know if you read the stats I posted yesterday, but here they are again. As others, notably Laputian, pointed out, you have to bear in mind that all, bar Ashurst, were managing at a lower level, but the records of all of his predecessors were better or as good as Reid's recent record, yet they were all sacked.

    Mick Buxton
    P W D L F A
    68 23 21 24 72 70
    Reid's last 68 matches
    P W D L F A
    68 22 19 27 77 82

    Terry Butcher
    P W D L F A
    38 10 7 21 38 53
    Reid's last 38 matches
    P W D L F A
    38 9 11 18 28 50

    Malcolm Crosby
    P W D L F A
    46 14 12 20 56 66
    Reid's last 46 matches
    P W D L F A
    46 12 13 21 38 61

    Lawrie McMenemy
    P W D L F A
    77 23 21 33 86 109
    Reid's last 77 matches
    P W D L F A
    77 24 23 30 74 93

    Len Ashurst
    P W D L F A
    55 15 13 27 52 74
    Reid's last 55 matches
    P W D L F A
    55 13 17 25 44 71

    How much more time should he be given?
  7. smoker

    smoker Striker

    As I stated elsewhere in this thread, Robson spent 24 million net on Boro compared to Reid's 32 million net on Sunderland in one more season. Could it not equally be argued that Reid "spent a bleedin fortune (by anyone's standards), got little back for it, and his team were heading down"? (NB Robson's last full season Boro finished 12th not 17th)

    That's not what I'm doing tho. Again, the point of my thread was not to re-emphasise that last season was crap. Rather it was to put it - or rather Reid into context of managers generally accepted to be a load of crap and deserving of the sack. If that has been done before, I apologise, but I doubt it. Your comments about Robbo above just emphasise my point, cos they don't withstand scrutiny.

    The only concept I am introducing is Reid deserves to be sacked by factual comparison with his peers. If this is unfair ("shit throwing"), why did Peter Reid contrive to make the facts such as to make this interpretation so inevitable? Can you produce facts for managers with a worse record that weren't sacked?
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Bollocks. Every word of this reply is complete bollocks. Sorry, but it is.
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    That bit certainly was :wink:
  10. smoker

    smoker Striker

    Fascinating stuff mate. Also worth pointing out to Laputian they received a fraction of the money Reid did.
  11. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Aye but it's all relative. My first ever wage packet was £9.21 for a 40 hour week. The "Big Issue" lad wouldn't turn out for that these days.

  12. Stir

    Stir Midfield

    I think the transfer dealing cannot be compared across different eras. The only conclusion that can be drawn from the Reid figures is that he hasn't be cash strapped and has spent as much as others in the Premiership.

    The feeling that Murray has not given him money, and that it is Murray's fault has been put to bed.
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    So let's compare Reid with Reid. Last season was bad, so was the relegation season. Question for the "Reid out group": Do you feel that he was able to turn things around after the relegation? If yes, why should he not be able to do it again?
  14. 1. It will be a lot harder in the prem
    2. If we go down the financial situation will mean it will be far more difficult to turn it round than last time.
  15. smoker

    smoker Striker

    because that was the first division not the premier?
  16. GK

    GK Striker Contributor

    So if you acknowledge that there is a difference between the two leagues, and hence we should have different levels of expectations on performance, all comparisons that (for example) Kevin Arnotts Right Boot drew between our more recent managers is totally null and void.

    Quality thread and post all the same smoker. Excellent stuff.
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    So presumably he has also more money and experience now. Along with a stronger squad.
  18. Stir

    Stir Midfield

    if he has a stronger squad they won't go down, if he hasn't got a stronger squad then it's his own fault

    I absolutely agree that Reid would be the most qualified person to be Sunderland manager if they needed promotion. He would also, if successful, then be the most qualified person NOT to be Sunderland manager in the Premiership as he would have showed he had vast experience of getting htem relegated.

    So, sack him now, if the tam get releagted then reemploy him
  19. Martian

    Martian Guest

    I think the current squad is as weak as it has been in at least 4 years.

    In Division 1 we had achoice of Phillips, a fit Quinn, Bridges or Dichio

    Now we just have Phillips who is 3 years older than he was then.
  20. Dichio - dont make me laugh! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Phillips is 3 years worth a better player, and thats obvious. Don't think he's due a free bus pass just yet. You forget Kyle/Proctor/Beliion who look, at the very least, prospects - one of them is bound to show up well, and that the club is trying to sign one or more strikers.

    You're clutching at straws now.
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