The "real" reason Reid should be sacked

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Homer

Winger
Lost Magpie
Boi said:
So let's compare Reid with Reid. Last season was bad, so was the relegation season. Question for the "Reid out group": Do you feel that he was able to turn things around after the relegation? If yes, why should he not be able to do it again?
So you're expecting to get relegated ? and you still want to keep him as manager because he'll be able to bring you back up ? That's a very warped sense of logic. Surely staying in the Premiership would be better ?
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

Guest
smoker said:
HBT said:
Robbo deserved to go because he spent a bleedin fortune (by anyone's standards), got little back for it, and his team were heading down.
As I stated elsewhere in this thread, Robson spent 24 million net on Boro compared to Reid's 32 million net on Sunderland in one more season. Could it not equally be argued that Reid "spent a bleedin fortune (by anyone's standards), got little back for it, and his team were heading down"? (NB Robson's last full season Boro finished 12th not 17th)

Look at the wage bills over the last four years, which you have totally "forgotten" about. Here's a clue - Boksic is on 60k/week after tax. Reid certainly has wasted some money, we all know that, but he's also made some excellent signings at generally good fees. I'm not sure what you mean by 'net', I assume its purchases - sales. If I'm quite glad that the SAFC number looks big as it means we haven't been a selling club (for the first time in my life).

HBT said:
But you didn't have to (it is already an accepted FACT that the last season and a bit was crap) and the concept is flawed anyway as noted above. Therefore it looks like just another shit throwing session, therefore people's backs get up.
That's not what I'm doing tho. Again, the point of my thread was not to re-emphasise that last season was crap. Rather it was to put it - or rather Reid into context of managers generally accepted to be a load of crap and deserving of the sack. If that has been done before, I apologise, but I doubt it. Your comments about Robbo above just emphasise my point, cos they don't withstand scrutiny.

The only concept I am introducing is Reid deserves to be sacked by factual comparison with his peers. If this is unfair ("shit throwing"), why did Peter Reid contrive to make the facts such as to make this interpretation so inevitable? Can you produce facts for managers with a worse record that weren't sacked?

Thanks for (not) bothering to read what I wrote. Your stats are meaningless because they are not comparing similar situations - the only thing that is comparable between them is the results over the last X games and, once again, we already know SAFC's are crap.
 
M

Martian

Guest
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Martian said:
Boi said:
because that was the first division not the premier?
So presumably he has also more money and experience now. Along with a stronger squad.
I think the current squad is as weak as it has been in at least 4 years.

In Division 1 we had achoice of Phillips, a fit Quinn, Bridges or Dichio

Now we just have Phillips who is 3 years older than he was then.
Dichio - dont make me laugh! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Phillips is 3 years worth a better player, and thats obvious. Don't think he's due a free bus pass just yet. You forget Kyle/Proctor/Beliion who look, at the very least, prospects - one of them is bound to show up well, and that the club is trying to sign one or more strikers.

You're clutching at straws now.
You make me laugh and provide entertainment, you just can't argue with my point it is fact.

Phillips was 25 - 26 scoring 30+ goals a season, fair enough he still has a few more years left and i hope he re-discovers his form, but to me he looked much sharper in front of goal 2 or 3 seasons ago.

We had Michael Bridges, one of Englands outstanding tallented young strikers, but let him go rather than attempting to pair him with Phillips.

We had a fit Niall Quinn

As for Dichio, he was a good option for us and I tell you what he has more about him than the bruiser Kyle.

Phillips, Kyle, Bellion, Proctor our current strikers - you make me laugh.

How can you say that is stronger than Phillips, Quinn, Bridges, Dichio four years ago? :eek: :eek:
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

Guest
Homer said:
Boi said:
So let's compare Reid with Reid. Last season was bad, so was the relegation season. Question for the "Reid out group": Do you feel that he was able to turn things around after the relegation? If yes, why should he not be able to do it again?
So you're expecting to get relegated ? and you still want to keep him as manager because he'll be able to bring you back up ? That's a very warped sense of logic. Surely staying in the Premiership would be better ?
Mate if you are going to skew any comment to fit your story, why not leave here, get a job doing it professionally with The Sun, and do us all a favour.
 

smoker

Striker
GK said:
So if you acknowledge that there is a difference between the two leagues, and hence we should have different levels of expectations on performance, all comparisons that (for example) Kevin Arnotts Right Boot drew between our more recent managers is totally null and void.
I thangew sir.

I think it depends whether KARB was commenting on the general inate ability of the managers or the tolerance of the board to their relative failure with the resources available. If he was commenting on the former his argument is flawed due to no fixed period of games or same division to benchmark the results against. If he was commenting on the latter, the lack of benchmark is still a problem but it's a more valid point. Only one person knows what KARB was getting at! 8)
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

Guest
Martian said:
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Martian said:
Boi said:
because that was the first division not the premier?
So presumably he has also more money and experience now. Along with a stronger squad.
I think the current squad is as weak as it has been in at least 4 years.

In Division 1 we had achoice of Phillips, a fit Quinn, Bridges or Dichio

Now we just have Phillips who is 3 years older than he was then.
Dichio - dont make me laugh! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Phillips is 3 years worth a better player, and thats obvious. Don't think he's due a free bus pass just yet. You forget Kyle/Proctor/Beliion who look, at the very least, prospects - one of them is bound to show up well, and that the club is trying to sign one or more strikers.

You're clutching at straws now.
You make me laugh and provide entertainment, you just can't argue with my point it is fact.

Phillips was 25 - 26 scoring 30+ goals a season, fair enough he still has a few more years left and i hope he re-discovers his form, but to me he looked much sharper in front of goal 2 or 3 seasons ago.

We had Michael Bridges, one of Englands outstanding tallented young strikers, but let him go rather than attempting to pair him with Phillips.

We had a fit Niall Quinn

As for Dichio, he was a good option for us and I tell you what he has more about him than the bruiser Kyle.

Phillips, Kyle, Bellion, Proctor our current strikers - you make me laugh.

How can you say that is stronger than Phillips, Quinn, Bridges, Dichio four years ago? :eek: :eek:
As might be expected from your name, you are in your own universe where everything looks exactly as you want it, everything is black and white, and no-one has a valid counter argument to anythign you say.

I could spend the rest of the morning picking holes just in the above, but I know a waste of time when I see one.

You just go on thinking you're the only one with the answers mate. Me, I like it here on Planet Earth.
 

Welshy

Midfield
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Look at the wage bills over the last four years, which you have totally "forgotten" about. Here's a clue - Boksic is on 60k/week after tax. Reid certainly has wasted some money, we all know that, but he's also made some excellent signings at generally good fees. I'm not sure what you mean by 'net', I assume its purchases - sales. If I'm quite glad that the SAFC number looks big as it means we haven't been a selling club (for the first time in my life).
It could also reflect on the fact that of the players we've bought and sold, we've made no fucking money at all (with the exception of Hutchison), and of the eight players currently on the transfer list we look set to make at least fuck all, all over again to swell the coffers.

It's not just Reid's record relative to these other managers which looks damning, it's the apparent inability/unwillingness to do anything about it. If you were in charge of a club that had barely survived last season without relegation and scored round about threee quarters of a goal a game, would you bring in some new strikers and players capable of delivering the ball to them or would you make hay while Rome pisses into the wind?
 

Homer

Winger
Lost Magpie
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Homer said:
Boi said:
So let's compare Reid with Reid. Last season was bad, so was the relegation season. Question for the "Reid out group": Do you feel that he was able to turn things around after the relegation? If yes, why should he not be able to do it again?
So you're expecting to get relegated ? and you still want to keep him as manager because he'll be able to bring you back up ? That's a very warped sense of logic. Surely staying in the Premiership would be better ?
Mate if you are going to skew any comment to fit your story, why not leave here, get a job doing it professionally with The Sun, and do us all a favour.
I haven't skewed any comment. You may notice the question marks which indicate that I'm asking whether I understand correctly what he's written. He wrote that Reid turned things round after relegation, so why can't he do it again i.e. why can't he turn things round after relegation in the future. I've then drawn a conclusion based on what I understand to have been suggested.

The Sun writers write things nice and simple for people like you to understand. I can't promise to stick to single syllable words just for you to keep up.
 

Stir

Midfield
Three years ago Kevin Phillips was the highest scorer in the Premiership. No one could argue with that as it was there in black and white that he had scored 30 goals and you just couldn't argue with that.

The same was true of Andy Cole at Newcastle back in 93-94.

In the last two season SK has managed 25 goals in total, 5 less than the first season. He cannot be as good a goalscorer as he was then. The criteria for measuring has to be changed to include the 'better all round player" bit. But to me that sounds just like Andy Cole going to Man U and never scoring as many goals again.

So, SK isn't the goalscorer he was from 4 years ago, NQ has gone, Bridges has gone, Dichio I have no idea about, but is probably comparable to Kyle at the moment. Reid has systematically reduced the attacking options available.
 
M

Martian

Guest
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
As might be expected from your name, you are in your own universe where everything looks exactly as you want it, everything is black and white, and no-one has a valid counter argument to anythign you say.
Hypocrite alert !!!!!!!!!!
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

Guest
Welshy said:
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Look at the wage bills over the last four years, which you have totally "forgotten" about. Here's a clue - Boksic is on 60k/week after tax. Reid certainly has wasted some money, we all know that, but he's also made some excellent signings at generally good fees. I'm not sure what you mean by 'net', I assume its purchases - sales. If I'm quite glad that the SAFC number looks big as it means we haven't been a selling club (for the first time in my life).
It's not just Reid's record relative to these other managers which looks damning, it's the apparent inability/unwillingness to do anything about it. If you were in charge of a club that had barely survived last season without relegation and scored round about threee quarters of a goal a game, would you bring in some new strikers and players capable of delivering the ball to them or would you make hay while Rome pisses into the wind?
Maybe I'm thick - but are you trying to say that the club is not trying to bring in strikers and more attacking midfield options ? Thats the only way I can interpret the above, but unfortunately that conflicts with my interpretation of everything else I see/hear.
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

Guest
Martian said:
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
As might be expected from your name, you are in your own universe where everything looks exactly as you want it, everything is black and white, and no-one has a valid counter argument to anythign you say.
Hypocrite alert !!!!!!!!!!
Oh thats so very clever.
 

Welshy

Midfield
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Welshy said:
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Look at the wage bills over the last four years, which you have totally "forgotten" about. Here's a clue - Boksic is on 60k/week after tax. Reid certainly has wasted some money, we all know that, but he's also made some excellent signings at generally good fees. I'm not sure what you mean by 'net', I assume its purchases - sales. If I'm quite glad that the SAFC number looks big as it means we haven't been a selling club (for the first time in my life).
It's not just Reid's record relative to these other managers which looks damning, it's the apparent inability/unwillingness to do anything about it. If you were in charge of a club that had barely survived last season without relegation and scored round about threee quarters of a goal a game, would you bring in some new strikers and players capable of delivering the ball to them or would you make hay while Rome pisses into the wind?
Maybe I'm thick - but are you trying to say that the club is not trying to bring in strikers and more attacking midfield options ? Thats the only way I can interpret the above, but unfortunately that conflicts with my interpretation of everything else I see/hear.
No, I'm saying either they are unwilling or incapabale, that's why I said "apparent inability/unwillingness".
If Reid is trying his hardest and still can't manage it then he should step aside for someone who can, if he's not willing to do this than Murray should have the balls/leadership to make that decision for him.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
So you're expecting to get relegated ? and you still want to keep him as manager because he'll be able to bring you back up ? That's a very warped sense of logic. Surely staying in the Premiership would be better ?
Well, I think you have misunderstood me. What I said was that Reid turned things around after one bad season. Last season was bad too. Why shouldn't he be able to do it again? I said nothing about getting relegated again, which obviously would mean two bad seasons in a row.
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

Guest
Stir said:
In the last two season SK has managed 25 goals in total, 5 less than the first season. He cannot be as good a goalscorer as he was then. The criteria for measuring has to be changed to include the 'better all round player" bit. But to me that sounds just like Andy Cole going to Man U and never scoring as many goals again.

So, SK isn't the goalscorer he was from 4 years ago, NQ has gone, Bridges has gone, Dichio I have no idea about, but is probably comparable to Kyle at the moment. Reid has systematically reduced the attacking options available.

I see, so if you played a team of 10 skittles and SKP, then the fact that SKP wouldnt score many goals would mean that he'd lost it as a goalscorer?

Anyone who has watched SKP play since he joined us KNOWS that he is a much better all round player now. In fact, I think he'd do a better Scholes-role for SAFC/England than Scholes does himself.

NQ has gone ? Must have been his ghost I saw playing up front at the last two matches.

Bridges, I can honestly say that, to me, he flattered to deceive. Even when he was scoring for fun at Leeds, I was thinking to myself "that won't last". PR was entirely right to play SKP/DP together in Div 1, if that stretched Bridges loyalty too far, then I'd show him a picture of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and tell him to F* off.

Dichio isn't worth talking about. He's at the other end of his career to Kyle, so if you say they are comparible now, then presumably they won't be later.

True enough we are light in the PROVEN forwards now, but that happens to every team at some point in the cycle. The club has promising young-uns, and has been busting a gut to get more experience and has kept its best forwards in the meanwhile (which has rarely happened in the past). Cant ask more than that, at this point in time.
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

Guest
Welshy said:
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Welshy said:
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Look at the wage bills over the last four years, which you have totally "forgotten" about. Here's a clue - Boksic is on 60k/week after tax. Reid certainly has wasted some money, we all know that, but he's also made some excellent signings at generally good fees. I'm not sure what you mean by 'net', I assume its purchases - sales. If I'm quite glad that the SAFC number looks big as it means we haven't been a selling club (for the first time in my life).
It's not just Reid's record relative to these other managers which looks damning, it's the apparent inability/unwillingness to do anything about it. If you were in charge of a club that had barely survived last season without relegation and scored round about threee quarters of a goal a game, would you bring in some new strikers and players capable of delivering the ball to them or would you make hay while Rome pisses into the wind?
Maybe I'm thick - but are you trying to say that the club is not trying to bring in strikers and more attacking midfield options ? Thats the only way I can interpret the above, but unfortunately that conflicts with my interpretation of everything else I see/hear.
No, I'm saying either they are unwilling or incapabale, that's why I said "apparent inability/unwillingness".
If Reid is trying his hardest and still can't manage it then he should step aside for someone who can, if he's not willing to do this than Murray should have the balls/leadership to make that decision for him.
Sorry but the old memory cells arent as good as they used to be - can you just remind me who the last SAFC manager was who brought in near world class strikers in 15 secs by simply twitching his nose ?
 

Welshy

Midfield
So you're saying that because we've been in the doldruums for a long time I shoudl be happy to stick by a manager who is demonstarting precious little ability in the transfer market and a similar level of skill at motivating our team and giving them a reasonable game plan to go out and win a football match?
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

Guest
Richard Head said:
Martian said:
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Martian said:
Boi said:
because that was the first division not the premier?


As for Dichio, he was a good option for us and I tell you what he has more about him than the bruiser Kyle.


Is Dichio the thinking mans' Kyle or has he just been around the game a little bit more Martian?
Dichio isnt even the thinking mans Dichio!
 
H

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher

Guest
Welshy said:
So you're saying that because we've been in the doldruums for a long time I shoudl be happy to stick by a manager who is demonstarting precious little ability in the transfer market and a similar level of skill at motivating our team and giving them a reasonable game plan to go out and win a football match?
No, if you ever find yourself in that situation I wouldn't.
 
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