Why does nobody care?

I think that one of the problems with us as fans is that we are incredibly badly organised. We are just not militant enough which is strange given the supporter and areas socialist roots. Other than whats going on on the filed of play we havent hit anyone's radar. No protests, no nothing.

Maybe if it was announced that Bain was a Tory it might have some effect......

Spot on, as you say it is surprising but Sunderland are not militant at all as a fan base. Also, the mags seem to have the attention seeking fanzine type things that enjoy planning things like this. A lot of protests, other than the stand outside the ground and shout abuse type, need planning. We don't have any supporters group that seems capable of, or inclined to do it. RAWA are only just starting to be fair to them but they're still very much in the "let's discuss it" phase. Do ALS just not want to rock the boat? They've been very quiet on the protest front throughout our struggles. Roker Report equally hasn't tried to plan anything. Your average fan is a bit limited in terms of what they can do and the reach they have
 


30 seconds on SSN, features on Football Focus, pieces in the broadsheets, blogs, podcasts and so on.

We all know the Oyston's are, as you say, colourful characters. Could you say what the owner of Doncaster is like? I couldn't. Because their owner has received no national press to my knowledge. As far as I know their owner is fine. Could be that their fans hate him and want rid of him, I wouldn't know because I've not heard anything to the contrary.

Will a Man City fan know if Sunderland fans want Ellis Short out? They sure as shit know we want Ashley gone. Whether they agree or not, they know our feelings.


It depends if you're talking about football fans who only ever watch their own team and then the first 3 games of Match of the Day or football fans who read football websites or just the sports sections in newspapers.

I've seen articles on both the BBC and the Guardian that had open comment sections and most of the replies talked about a 'bad owner' or a big club destroyed by an owner/the running of the club. Basically a decent number of people seemed to understand the issue without showing much interest in it.
 
It depends if you're talking about football fans who only ever watch their own team and then the first 3 games of Match of the Day or football fans who read football websites or just the sports sections in newspapers.

I've seen articles on both the BBC and the Guardian that had open comment sections and most of the replies talked about a 'bad owner' or a big club destroyed by an owner/the running of the club. Basically a decent number of people seemed to understand the issue without showing much interest in it.

Aye, I think there have been a fair few pieces about the state we're in. It's not major news, partly because Short isn't actually a disgraceful owner; he's not trying to change the colour of the home strip, he's not trying to sell the ground off for housing, he's not trying to change the name of the club or move its location. Those kind of owners get a lot more attention and pressure. Short is just someone who has made shit decisions, the club has been badly run as a result and we're facing the consequences. Aside of reporting on it there's not much there to really interest people . If we were in real danger of being wound up it would get more attention, but as it is we just have a loan we need to pay off, similar to many other clubs (albeit we might struggle more to manage it). I wouldn't expect much more coverage than we've had
 
Aye, I think there have been a fair few pieces about the state we're in. It's not major news, partly because Short isn't actually a disgraceful owner; he's not trying to change the colour of the home strip, he's not trying to sell the ground off for housing, he's not trying to change the name of the club or move its location. Those kind of owners get a lot more attention and pressure. Short is just someone who has made shit decisions, the club has been badly run as a result and we're facing the consequences. Aside of reporting on it there's not much there to really interest people . If we were in real danger of being wound up it would get more attention, but as it is we just have a loan we need to pay off, similar to many other clubs (albeit we might struggle more to manage it). I wouldn't expect much more coverage than we've had
Careful now, that kind of talk will have you shouted down on here.
 
Aye, I think there have been a fair few pieces about the state we're in. It's not major news, partly because Short isn't actually a disgraceful owner; he's not trying to change the colour of the home strip, he's not trying to sell the ground off for housing, he's not trying to change the name of the club or move its location. Those kind of owners get a lot more attention and pressure. Short is just someone who has made shit decisions, the club has been badly run as a result and we're facing the consequences. Aside of reporting on it there's not much there to really interest people . If we were in real danger of being wound up it would get more attention, but as it is we just have a loan we need to pay off, similar to many other clubs (albeit we might struggle more to manage it). I wouldn't expect much more coverage than we've had
How anyone can change 'philosophies' and big name managers as much as we do yet never escape the spiral drop into the shitty abyss is actually quite impressive.
 
Careful now, that kind of talk will have you shouted down on here.

:lol: he has been shite mind and I want him to fuck off. I just mean that it's been poor decisions rather than bad intentions. Some have been very avoidable poor decisions (don't appoint your mates son who is an agent to become director of football as an example) but still, I think his intentions have been right. He hasn't set out to fuck us over and I'm sure he wants us to get back on our feet (maybe his litany of poor decisions are partly why he's left it to a "football man" and fucked off). Again, I want him gone, but he's not really going to get fans of other clubs outraged in the way that the Oystons have
 
:lol: he has been shite mind and I want him to fuck off. I just mean that it's been poor decisions rather than bad intentions. Some have been very avoidable poor decisions (don't appoint your mates son who is an agent to become director of football as an example) but still, I think his intentions have been right. He hasn't set out to fuck us over and I'm sure he wants us to get back on our feet (maybe his litany of poor decisions are partly why he's left it to a "football man" and fucked off). Again, I want him gone, but he's not really going to get fans of other clubs outraged in the way that the Oystons have
I totally agree mate - other than I don't want him gone at all costs (I'm not sure if you do anyway). As unbelievable as it seems, we could end up with someone worse, like the Oystons.
 
It depends if you're talking about football fans who only ever watch their own team and then the first 3 games of Match of the Day or football fans who read football websites or just the sports sections in newspapers.

I've seen articles on both the BBC and the Guardian that had open comment sections and most of the replies talked about a 'bad owner' or a big club destroyed by an owner/the running of the club. Basically a decent number of people seemed to understand the issue without showing much interest in it.

I've not seen anything, but unsurprisingly I've not gone looking for it and I feel pretty up to speed on it.

My point is that, if the fans had organised a mass walkout or a march, or thrown thousands of tennis balls on the pitch, or an ill advised pitch invasion there'd be more coverage in the national press. Which is what the OP was after, wasn't it?

fwiw I don't think a protest would change much. Short wants out and is certainly appearing to be asking for a more reasonable price than Ashley is for us.

Even so, I think if he'd overseen a period of miserable struggles (followed by what looks like a double relegation) at a club I supported, I'd be livid and would want to do something to at least vent my anger. Be it boycoutting, bedsheets or bashing a horse on the beak. I'm honestly surprised there's been nothing remarkable at Sunderland. Is it; the elation from last minute survivals, each season bringing a new manager to pin your hopes on and, victories over the local rivals going a long way to pour cold water on rising anger?
 
Even so, I think if he'd overseen a period of miserable struggles (followed by what looks like a double relegation) at a club I supported, I'd be livid and would want to do something to at least vent my anger. Be it boycoutting, bedsheets or bashing a horse on the beak. I'm honestly surprised there's been nothing remarkable at Sunderland. Is it; the elation from last minute survivals, each season bringing a new manager to pin your hopes on and, victories over the local rivals going a long way to pour cold water on rising anger?
I think it's more to do with the fact what is a protest going to achieve, other than letting the fans vent their anger. At the moment Short is doing nothing, so it's not as if a protest would have the objective of stopping him doing something (like changing the ground name like Ashley did at Newcastle). A protest isn't going to get him to open up his own pockets for transfer cash.
 
It is not picked up by the mainstream press as you lot as fans dont even care so why would anyone else?

West Ham protest and its everywhere rightly or wrongly.
Don't tell us to protest, its just too much of a bother, and we can't be arsed really.
We might do something when they close the gates for the last time. Until then, we'll carry on being apathetic
 
It's nothing to do with Brexit man. Footballers aren't going to be unable to travel freely after Brexit. Some young footballers do want to come here but most would rather go to Manchester or London, same as the issues faced by every other club. Of course some have considerations other than money but whether the place they are moving to voted for f***ing Brexit or not will not be one of them. The reason we're shit is because we have vastly overspent on players who have been shit and have left for a massive loss. This is a new variation on "blame the fans" mind, it's now "blame the city", or is it just yet another attempt from someone who voted remain to try and make people who voted a different way to them feel bad about it? "Sorry Chris, you've offered the same wages as QPR and that but Sunderland voted to leave the EU so fuck you", can really imagine that conversation

About the one player we can all agree hasn't joined us just for the money is surely Asoro.

Race hate crime rose 48% in our area in the months following the outcome. Again, this is about the only time in the last two years that Wearside has been in the national news.

Maybe you think that's no huge issue; after all, Darren Bent's career with us went from strength to strength after our fans racially abused his mum. Turned out really well.

Not saying it's the only reason we're shit by a long shot, but it is not helpful in the slightest.
 
About the one player we can all agree hasn't joined us just for the money is surely Asoro.

Race hate crime rose 48% in our area in the months following the outcome. Again, this is about the only time in the last two years that Wearside has been in the national news.

Maybe you think that's no huge issue; after all, Darren Bent's career with us went from strength to strength after our fans racially abused his mum. Turned out really well.

Not saying it's the only reason we're shit by a long shot, but it is not helpful in the slightest.

I don't know what the hell you're going on about tbh. What young player will read up about Sunderland, see they voted for Brexit and decide not to come? How many will sit and look up race hate crime statistics? Hell, how many will even be living in Sunderland? Most will live in areas with very little race hate crime, they aren't going to be staying in the city centre. And, despite the way you are trying to portray the place, Sunderland is hardly an unwelcoming, racist city. What does the way Darren Bent's career went have anything, at all, to do with a small number of arseholes abusing his mam? Literally nothing you are posting makes any sense whatsoever. Young players are not put off signing for us because we voted for Brexit and race crime statistics went up afterwards ffs.

Why the fuck do people have to keep banging on about Brexit and bringing it into absolutely unrelated issues? We aren't signing good young players because we aren't spending any f***ing money. Young players are joining on loan. I've not seen anything to suggest that ethnic minority players are wary of signing for us; Ejaria and Clarke-Salter happily arrived on loan, LuaLua signed, Asoro says he likes being here. You're looking for a link that simply doesn't exist ffs
 
About the one player we can all agree hasn't joined us just for the money is surely Asoro.

Race hate crime rose 48% in our area in the months following the outcome. Again, this is about the only time in the last two years that Wearside has been in the national news.

Maybe you think that's no huge issue; after all, Darren Bent's career with us went from strength to strength after our fans racially abused his mum. Turned out really well.

Not saying it's the only reason we're shit by a long shot, but it is not helpful in the slightest.

Probably the most irrelevant point ever made on Pure Football.

Also, "mum", that's suspiscious. Do you look down on people from the North East by any chance?
 
I think part of it is that we have a somewhat romanticized view of our club.

I think most people have probably viewed us as playing awful football for years or decades and even if they did 'care' see it as an axiomatic fact rather than anything that can be remedied - much less identify the source of the malaise
 
I think it's more to do with the fact what is a protest going to achieve, other than letting the fans vent their anger. At the moment Short is doing nothing, so it's not as if a protest would have the objective of stopping him doing something (like changing the ground name like Ashley did at Newcastle). A protest isn't going to get him to open up his own pockets for transfer cash.

Doesn't that have some value though? As it stands fewer Sunderland fans are attending as apathy and disenfranchisement becomes the norm. Surely long suffering fans are binning their season tickets off , understandably. Fewer people are buying tickets for individual matches. Fewer parents taking their kids. And a club is nothing without it's fans.

I'm not an attendance bore, but if you've lost 8-10k by dropping into the championship (and struggling), you'll surely lose another sizeable amount should you drop into League 1. Without tv money, drops to commercial revenue and so on, gate receipts would be much more important to your financial future?
 
I don't know what the hell you're going on about tbh. What young player will read up about Sunderland, see they voted for Brexit and decide not to come? How many will sit and look up race hate crime statistics? Hell, how many will even be living in Sunderland? Most will live in areas with very little race hate crime, they aren't going to be staying in the city centre. And, despite the way you are trying to portray the place, Sunderland is hardly an unwelcoming, racist city. What does the way Darren Bent's career went have anything, at all, to do with a small number of arseholes abusing his mam? Literally nothing you are posting makes any sense whatsoever. Young players are not put off signing for us because we voted for Brexit and race crime statistics went up afterwards ffs.

Why the fuck do people have to keep banging on about Brexit and bringing it into absolutely unrelated issues? We aren't signing good young players because we aren't spending any f***ing money. Young players are joining on loan. I've not seen anything to suggest that ethnic minority players are wary of signing for us; Ejaria and Clarke-Salter happily arrived on loan, LuaLua signed, Asoro says he likes being here. You're looking for a link that simply doesn't exist ffs

Do you look down on people from the North East by any chance?

I'm not portraying Sunderland badly. I love the team, the place, and the people. I want us seen in the best light, and for us to be able to attract the best players, as should anyone on here.

We're in the shit because we've had to spend over the odds on mercenary players who've only come here for the money.

The only options are:

1. Carry on paying over the odds for mercenaries who don't give a fuck about the area.
2. Offer more reason for players to come here than just the money.

If we're going with the only sensible option, then brand and marketing of both the team and the area are clearly important. I've lived further South for the last decade, and it's galling for me that over that time Sunderland has become the butt of all jokes.

It concerns me that colleagues see Hull as a more attractive place than Sunderland now; that would not have been true a decade ago. If we want to attract the best players, we can't be seen nationally as a shitter place than Hull.

Maybe you see no worth in brand, and are happy to see us continue to spend over the odds on mercenaries in the hope that somehow magically things will improve. That's fine but I disagree.

For me, only seeing Sunderland come up in the news when we harbour paedophile players; or they get drunk; or we're highlighted as a flagship for anti-immigrant causes; or for our sharp spike in race hate crimes, is an issue. None of them are the ONLY issue, but we're bottom of Div 2, we need all the help we can get.
 
I'm not portraying Sunderland badly. I love the team, the place, and the people. I want us seen in the best light, and for us to be able to attract the best players, as should anyone on here.

We're in the shit because we've had to spend over the odds on mercenary players who've only come here for the money.

The only options are:

1. Carry on paying over the odds for mercenaries who don't give a fuck about the area.
2. Offer more reason for players to come here than just the money.

If we're going with the only sensible option, then brand and marketing of both the team and the area are clearly important. I've lived further South for the last decade, and it's galling for me that over that time Sunderland has become the butt of all jokes.

It concerns me that colleagues see Hull as a more attractive place than Sunderland now; that would not have been true a decade ago. If we want to attract the best players, we can't be seen nationally as a shitter place than Hull.

Maybe you see no worth in brand, and are happy to see us continue to spend over the odds on mercenaries in the hope that somehow magically things will improve. That's fine but I disagree.

For me, only seeing Sunderland come up in the news when we harbour paedophile players; or they get drunk; or we're highlighted as a flagship for anti-immigrant causes; or for our sharp spike in race hate crimes, is an issue. None of them are the ONLY issue, but we're bottom of Div 2, we need all the help we can get.

It's a football club. They come here for the money. They don't (in the vast majority of cases) even live in Sunderland so they won't be arsed about the "brand" of the city. Very few young footballers will have heard about a spike in race hate crime statistics, hell I live here and hadn't heard about it. We sell the club not by selling Sunderland as a "brand" but by either offering more money than others, or by convincing them that the facilities we have will help them improve, and by convincing them that SAFC are a club that are going places and is a good place to ply your trade. Having no money and constantly being shite are the reasons why we struggle to get people in. I'll say it again, no player is going to turn down Sunderland because the city majority voted Brexit, hell they'll be living and often going out in exactly the same places as the Newcastle players so if we've got a problem they must do too, and they voted remain
 
It's a football club. They come here for the money. They don't (in the vast majority of cases) even live in Sunderland so they won't be arsed about the "brand" of the city. Very few young footballers will have heard about a spike in race hate crime statistics, hell I live here and hadn't heard about it. We sell the club not by selling Sunderland as a "brand" but by either offering more money than others, or by convincing them that the facilities we have will help them improve, and by convincing them that SAFC are a club that are going places and is a good place to ply your trade. Having no money and constantly being shite are the reasons why we struggle to get people in. I'll say it again, no player is going to turn down Sunderland because the city majority voted Brexit, hell they'll be living and often going out in exactly the same places as the Newcastle players so if we've got a problem they must do too, and they voted remain

We'll probably have to agree to disagree. For me, what you're saying here is just highlighting the issue. People shouldn't be coming to Sunderland because "it's ok, we'll live out in the country and order from Waitrose so my family don't get abused in the street, and ah well the city hasn't attracted investment in a long time but we'll just go out in Newcastle, it'll be fine.

At least they're paying me more than anyone else was willing to give to a shit mercenary like me. "

For the record I don't see Brexit as one of our major issues. I didn't bring it up, I was replying to a post on here.
 
I know you're joking, but being a flagship city for self-sabotage and the removal of EU travel rights isn't likely to have helped.

We specifically need to attract athletes under the age of 30 with good career prospects to the area. What a great way of showing we're the place for them to thrive.
I hardly think that how Sunderland folk voted in the referendum will be high on the list of today's professional footballer mate.
 
I hardly think that how Sunderland folk voted in the referendum will be high on the list of today's professional footballer mate.
Not high on the list. All these things add up though.

See last few posts. It concerns me that people down here have Sunderland as the butt of their jokes now. It can't help our current predicament.
 

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