Why does nobody care?

[Guinness Guzzler]

There's nowt like being overly dramatic. The club isn't dying, it's "just" going to be relegated to league 1. Yes, it's a pisser, but league 1 football won't kill the club. Being unable to pay the debts off might kill the club though.

This. It's shit going to league one but it happens to big clubs that are ran like shit. We just have to accept it and hope that, with the parachute payments still coming in and more and more high earners leaving, we can address the external loan at the end of next season and look to build again.

League one should be the furthest we fall (I do stress the "should" mind!). FFP will assist us there, the academy should be producing several players good enough to at least play a part and hopefully enough fans will stick with us to see us okay financially. The last few years have been shit, the next couple might not be much better, but at the end of it we'll hopefully have a much more manageable debt and will start rebuilding. Call me an optimist but I'm confident we're near to reaching the lowest point, just need to endure a bit more pain before it improves!

 

[Motor City Cobra]

Let's leave aside people inside the club, owner, CEO, players etc

I just don't see our situation being mentioned anywhere outside of our bubble. No ex-players speaking out. No pundits.

The "we are a big club" arguments are tedious normally, but we are a pretty big club, heading for back to back relegations in such awful fashion and it feels like nobody cares.

Why hasn't Quinny even said anything?

Is it because we are stuck in the north east or something?

So much football coverage, 24/7 stories, mostly about fuck all, this is a real big story surely. I;m at a loss with the whole thing, feels like we have just been left to die and nobody outside the fan base gives a shit.

Prob seb but 1 pager from the sun columnist today......he seemed to care.

 

[pele]

Look at Charlton a London club one time premiership club

Ok maybe not same prestige as us

That's a laugh, Frank.

No, because there wasn't the money in the game. In the mid-1980's, I worked for a firm that were auditors to Birmingham. I did a bit of work in their pension scheme. At that time, Howard Gayle was their top paid player - he was on £35,000 ..... a year. That was less than twice than I was on at the time, admittedly as a well paid audit manager. But there were guys on factory floors then getting around £150/week. There wasn't the big disconnect there is now.

Very confusing, Grumps. Would you like to revisit your text?

Much of it has to do with a club's fans' sense of "rightful place", if that's the right phrase. People look at other clubs in what they consider to be the same bracket, and expect emulation. There was a perception that Cowie and Murray were a bit tight-fisted in relation to other clubs, and that sparked some anger. It didn't help that financial information was much harder to come by. You could still get accounts from Companies House, but you had to apply by post, and it wasn't free of charge.

I've just had a quick look at the 1990/91 accounts, and, looking back, what Murray did was understandable. The club incurred £200k in legal costs over a share litigation (what was that about?), and another £400k on the costs of complying with the Taylor report. That would have hamstrung transfer budgets, and, indeed, in the summer of 1991, there was a rights issue to raise cash for transfers, which led to a spend of £1.2m in 1991/2. That doesn't sound much, but you need to consider that turnover in 1990/1 was only £4.1m in total.

Aye, life's tough at the top, Grumps.

 

[The Fish]

No I just don't understand why you're protesting.

You don't understand why the Newcastle fans were protesting? Seems unlikely, given all the attention it got.

 

[The Great MES]

You don't understand why the Newcastle fans were protesting? Seems unlikely, given all the attention it got.

Something to do with cockneys? Be careful what you wish for, remember all the protests over Pardew and you ended up with John Carver?

 

[mad cyril]

Something to do with cockneys? Be careful what you wish for, remember all the protests over Pardew and you ended up with John Carver?

Then the protests over Carver got us Mclaren, then the protests over McLaren saw us strike gold.

It’s reasuring to know that persistence pays off

 

[The Great MES]

Then the protests over Carver got us Mclaren, then the protests over McLaren saw us strike gold.

It’s reasuring to know that persistence pays off

Striking gold is debatable but Ashley brought in the fourth or fifth highest earning manager in the league so he's not all that bad is he? You lot remind me of "The People's Front of Judeah" in the Life of Brian - "what have the Romans ever done for us", then rhyme off a load of stuff

 

[The Fish]

Something to do with cockneys? Be careful what you wish for, remember all the protests over Pardew and you ended up with John Carver?

Aye we wanted Pardew replaced. Something that Crystal Palace and West Brom fans can sympathise with.

Can I ask a question now; do you think the national press would take more of an interest in your club's surrender to relegation if the fans had been kicking up a stink?

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Aye we wanted Pardew replaced. Something that Crystal Palace and West Brom fans can sympathise with.

Can I ask a question now; do you think the national press would take more of an interest in your club's surrender to relegation if the fans had been kicking up a stink?

Unless it involved death, serious injury, or a really novel way of getting a match abandoned, no.

 

[The Great MES]

Aye we wanted Pardew replaced. Something that Crystal Palace and West Brom fans can sympathise with.

Can I ask a question now; do you think the national press would take more of an interest in your club's surrender to relegation if the fans had been kicking up a stink?

I wouldn't have thought so. I'll ask you the question again, why are you protesting? From a Sunderland supporter looking in it seems absolutely ridiculous. I've even seen comments on twitter from other fans such as Leeds saying the same thing after that game with all the banners and bedsheets

 

[nilid69]

I doubt a single footballer we have approached has given the tiniest slightest bit of a fuck about Brexit ffs. They want somewhere which will pay them the most, if that's here they'll be here quick as a flash, they're not going to turn it down because Sunderland had a majority that voted for Brexit!

I'm not saying it's the first thing on their minds, but it can't be helpful. You don't think the right to travel freely and live in Europe is a consideration for millionaires who'll retire at 35?

You're wrong that no single footballer will have any considerations but money. It's true of a lot of them, but its a problem we struggle with more than most.

So why the fuck are no young players interested in coming to Sunderland? Beautiful area, good travel links... I can't imagine, it's not like the only time the place has been in the news in the last two years was to highlight we're like a small backwards slightly racist Newcastle. (Oh and also when our shit players that don't care about the area take the piss and get arrested).

If everyone had the same chronic issue with mercenary players then every team would be similarly shit, rather than it being us, specifically, propping up Division 2 from a position just below Burton.

You don't understand why the Newcastle fans were protesting? Seems unlikely, given all the attention it got.

Something to do with cockneys? Be careful what you wish for, remember all the protests over Pardew and you ended up with John Carver?

I remember. It was the St James Park thing. Newcastle had the unique and original St James Park (not to be confused with St James Park, or of course St James Park). A stadium name granted from on high by their famous number 9, no less.

And that man. That bloody man. He wanted to change the name. BASTARD.

 

[Wearson]

I think it’s because our supporters realise that they have absolutely no influence over the running of their club or the attitude of their players, anymore ( rather than not caring) I feel no attachment to the players (as they don’t give toss) and have an uneasy feeling of loving a club that bears no resemblance now to what it once was. There is nothing to be proud of about the club anymore . Just a feeling of being mugged off by them and embarrassed by them . The worst feeling tho is the knowledge that it will never be the same again, going to footy is not the same either, and as long as clubs are in the top divisions it never will be . Might as well just get used to that as there’s no point yearning for the past. It would be nice to be proud of the club again one day tho .

 

[The Fish]

Unless it involved death, serious injury, or a really novel way of getting a match abandoned, no.

I don't mean "Would it effect change", I'm asking if it would have got more attention. If you're saying that protests, or fan action, wouldn't have got attention, I'm surprised. It's worked for Blackpool fans, Charlton fans, West Ham fans and us too. Hasn't necessarily brought change, but it has drawn attention. Why wouldn't fan action get Sunderland attention when it has for clubs with less profile (Blackpool, Charlton) clubs who're similarly remote (Newcastle) and clubs who, on the face of it, aren't in as dire a state (West Ham)?

I wouldn't have thought so. I'll ask you the question again, why are you protesting? From a Sunderland supporter looking in it seems absolutely ridiculous. I've even seen comments on twitter from other fans such as Leeds saying the same thing after that game with all the banners and bedsheets

We were protesting the way the club was being run, and the terrible performance of a manager. I'm not wholly convinced you were oblivious to the reasons behind our protests.

Their perceived ridiculousness is irrelevant to the conversation, really. Seems like an excuse to try and have a dig at Newcastle, rather than a pertinent point in this conversation about why Sunderland's demise isn't getting attention, unless I'm not seeing the link?

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

I'm not saying it's the first thing on their minds, but it can't be helpful. You don't think the right to travel freely and live in Europe is a consideration for millionaires who'll retire at 35?

You're wrong that no single footballer will have any considerations but money. It's true of a lot of them, but its a problem we struggle with more than most.

So why the fuck are no young players interested in coming to Sunderland? Beautiful area, good travel links... I can't imagine, it's not like the only time the place has been in the news in the last two years was to highlight we're like a small backwards slightly racist Newcastle. (Oh and also when our shit players that don't care about the area take the piss and get arrested).

If everyone had the same chronic issue with mercenary players then every team would be similarly shit, rather than it being us, specifically, propping up Division 2 from a position just below Burton.




I remember. It was the St James Park thing. Newcastle had the unique and original St James Park (not to be confused with St James Park, or of course St James Park). A stadium name granted from on high by their famous number 9, no less.

And that man. That bloody man. He wanted to change the name. BASTARD.

It's nothing to do with Brexit man. Footballers aren't going to be unable to travel freely after Brexit. Some young footballers do want to come here but most would rather go to Manchester or London, same as the issues faced by every other club. Of course some have considerations other than money but whether the place they are moving to voted for f***ing Brexit or not will not be one of them. The reason we're shit is because we have vastly overspent on players who have been shit and have left for a massive loss. This is a new variation on "blame the fans" mind, it's now "blame the city", or is it just yet another attempt from someone who voted remain to try and make people who voted a different way to them feel bad about it? "Sorry Chris, you've offered the same wages as QPR and that but Sunderland voted to leave the EU so fuck you", can really imagine that conversation

 

[The Great MES]

I don't mean "Would it effect change", I'm asking if it would have got more attention. If you're saying that protests, or fan action, wouldn't have got attention, I'm surprised. It's worked for Blackpool fans, Charlton fans, West Ham fans and us too. Hasn't necessarily brought change, but it has drawn attention. Why wouldn't fan action get Sunderland attention when it has for clubs with less profile (Blackpool, Charlton) clubs who're similarly remote (Newcastle) and clubs who, on the face of it, aren't in as dire a state (West Ham)?



We were protesting the way the club was being run, and the terrible performance of a manager. I'm not wholly convinced you were oblivious to the reasons behind our protests.

Their perceived ridiculousness is irrelevant to the conversation, really. Seems like an excuse to try and have a dig at Newcastle, rather than a pertinent point in this conversation about why Sunderland's demise isn't getting attention, unless I'm not seeing the link?

I'm not trying to have a dig. We're talking about Sunderland's demise and trying to gain national attention. And then we look up the road and we see a club that runs at a profit, spends quite big (don't tell me that 100 mil over the last two seasons isn't big), full house every week, high profile manager and now more or less established in the PL, basically booming. And then we see all the banners and protests. Every Sunderland fan I know (myself included) are at an absolute loss as to the point of them.

 

[cluffy]

Pardew was the one the mags should have held onto as he got them fifth. Must be gutting for them having Rafa now who can't get them anywhere near as high and has taken them down

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

I don't mean "Would it effect change", I'm asking if it would have got more attention. If you're saying that protests, or fan action, wouldn't have got attention, I'm surprised. It's worked for Blackpool fans, Charlton fans, West Ham fans and us too. Hasn't necessarily brought change, but it has drawn attention. Why wouldn't fan action get Sunderland attention when it has for clubs with less profile (Blackpool, Charlton) clubs who're similarly remote (Newcastle) and clubs who, on the face of it, aren't in as dire a state (West Ham)?



We were protesting the way the club was being run, and the terrible performance of a manager. I'm not wholly convinced you were oblivious to the reasons behind our protests.

Their perceived ridiculousness is irrelevant to the conversation, really. Seems like an excuse to try and have a dig at Newcastle, rather than a pertinent point in this conversation about why Sunderland's demise isn't getting attention, unless I'm not seeing the link?

If there is "national media" attention, it's a 30 second slot on SSN. Blackpool get a little bit more because it's such a long-running circus, and the Oystons are, err, "colourful" characters (said he, trying very hard not to get Roger in trouble).

 

[The Fish]

I'm not trying to have a dig. We're talking about Sunderland's demise and trying to gain national attention. And then we look up the road and we see a club that runs at a profit, spends quite big (don't tell me that 100 mil over the last two seasons isn't big), full house every week, high profile manager and now more or less established in the PL, basically booming. And then we see all the banners and protests. Every Sunderland fan I know (myself included) are at an absolute loss as to the point of them.

But your 2 streams of thought are separate.
1. You see Newcastle getting attention because of their protests
2. You don't understand the reasons for our protests.

If Sunderland fans want national press, they need to do something noteworthy. Doesn't mean they'll get the change they want, but they'll get attention.

The reasons for our protests are well known. We want rid of an owner bereft of ambition and one who cares not a jot for the club, beyond it being a vehicle for his Sports tat store. An owner who's a proven liar, an embarrassment and who holds the fanbase in contempt. Pardew was a bad manager and although people point at an aberrant 5th place finish, it's been proven he's a bad manager in his 2 subsequent posts. He hasn't even embarrassed himself off the pitch at Palace or West Brom to the degree he did at Newcastle, but both their fans bases wanted shot of him quick sharp.

Football fans want their club to strive for more, to be the best they can be. And if you can set aside partisan blinders Mike Ashley's Newcastle has not been the best it can be on the whole.

But this isn't about Newcastle, it's about Sunderland. Sunderland had been a top flight team for nigh on a decade, but more often than not it was fighting against relegation. A revolving door of bad managers, bad players, and a litany of bad decisions by the owner all seem to have been met with resignation, rather than anger. Why is that?

If there is "national media" attention, it's a 30 second slot on SSN. Blackpool get a little bit more because it's such a long-running circus, and the Oystons are, err, "colourful" characters (said he, trying very hard not to get Roger in trouble).

30 seconds on SSN, features on Football Focus, pieces in the broadsheets, blogs, podcasts and so on.

We all know the Oyston's are, as you say, colourful characters. Could you say what the owner of Doncaster is like? I couldn't. Because their owner has received no national press to my knowledge. As far as I know their owner is fine. Could be that their fans hate him and want rid of him, I wouldn't know because I've not heard anything to the contrary.

Will a Man City fan know if Sunderland fans want Ellis Short out? They sure as shit know we want Ashley gone. Whether they agree or not, they know our feelings.

 

[Buchans Boots]

Let's leave aside people inside the club, owner, CEO, players etc

I just don't see our situation being mentioned anywhere outside of our bubble. No ex-players speaking out. No pundits.

The "we are a big club" arguments are tedious normally, but we are a pretty big club, heading for back to back relegations in such awful fashion and it feels like nobody cares.

Why hasn't Quinny even said anything?

Is it because we are stuck in the north east or something?

So much football coverage, 24/7 stories, mostly about fuck all, this is a real big story surely. I;m at a loss with the whole thing, feels like we have just been left to die and nobody outside the fan base gives a shit.

I think that one of the problems with us as fans is that we are incredibly badly organised. We are just not militant enough which is strange given the supporter and areas socialist roots. Other than whats going on on the filed of play we havent hit anyone's radar. No protests, no nothing.

Maybe if it was announced that Bain was a Tory it might have some effect......

 

[flusheding]

Thing is, we have plenty of ex players commenting on Twitter, but nobody in the press cares what Darren Williams or whoever has to say.

Quinn used to have a platform when he worked for Sky but he's barely made any public appearances since.

When you see quotes in the media it isn't because they've rang up a journalist and told them what they think, it's because they've made an appearance somewhere at an event and been asked for it. The quotes from Quinn from last year were after a sportsmans dinner iirc.

The only high profile (ish) figures we have are Micky Gray, who regularly speaks out but everyone calls him a gobshite, and Dave Jones from Sky who talks us up every chance he gets and tweeted something the other day about us.

If the club had any sense though (the don't) they'd send the likes of Bally, Monty or even someone like Kieron Brady or Alex Rae out to meet potential investors. They'd be much better at selling the club than Short or Bain

This is exactly why West Ham get so much coverage because there appears to be a lot of journalists for papers who happen to support West Ham.

In the same way as others have said in this thread that Newcastle will often get a mention purely because Shearer's ties to the club and his prominence in the media.

Liverpool get wanked over due to how many ex-pool players there are in the media.

A prime example of somewhere that Sunderland get a mention is the Football Weekly podcast, because Glendenning and Jonathan Wilson are Sunderland fans we get a disproportionate number of mentions when other Championship clubs don't. We were and are mentioned regularly for the last couple of years.

The break away podcast Totally Football now basically never mentions us as neither Wilson or Glendenning appear on it, even though it has the same host as Football Weekly had which mentioned us so often.

You basically need 'cheerleaders' so to speak in positions of power/voice/appearance.

If you really on just simply being noticed by normal journalists then you actually have to do something that is going to be reported on, and as has been said by others in this thread, our current predicament is that unusual or special.