Stick or twist..

[jonny gently]

I actually think number 3 would be the worst option, all about opinions mind! For me though a big name is all well and good but this is a massive challenge for even the most experienced manager. We'll be going to league one in a bad financial state, with fans either pissed off or apathetic, an owner that doesn't care and we'll need nearly a full new squad. That, for me, is well beyond most going into their first job in management. They might be able to convince slightly better players to sign for us but only if the wages are right and only if we pay the transfer fees, Keano would have had nothing like the effect he did if we'd said "here's 200k to spend"

I'd stick with Coleman, mainly just in the hopes that when he's got his own players in he might be able to get a good atmosphere amongst them if we can just get a side capable of competing. That being said his transfers to date leave a lot to be desired and, even though I know he's been forced to scrape the barrel, the fact is it's not likely to be much different next season. Can he get a good league one side together? I'm not so sure. I do think he deserves the chance to try though.

Everyone of the players he's brought to the club is worse than those already there. The team has got worse and nobody thought that was possible after Moyes and Grayson. There appears to be a lot of wishful thinking going on that Coleman will turn things around. I tell it as I see it, Coleman is as bad if not worse than the previous 2 managers. It pains me to say it. I thought he'd sort the slackers; all he's done is encourage them. Bin him now and go down with a bit fight.

 

[chuckyroll]

Everyone of the players he's brought to the club is worse than those already there. The team has got worse and nobody thought that was possible after Moyes and Grayson. There appears to be a lot of wishful thinking going on that Coleman will turn things around. I tell it as I see it, Coleman is as bad if not worse than the previous 2 managers. It pains me to say it. I thought he'd sort the slackers; all he's done is encourage them. Bin him now and go down with a bit fight.

Most would love to agree. The facts disagree . Cant work out if he's out of his depth or the players are shot to bits . Supposetime will tell. Give him a run.

 

[Lord Alfred]

It hasn't worked for us though has it - quote any stats you want we've have experienced a steady decline, at best relegation battles and £140M worth of debt. I'm talking about Sunderland not any other club and I'm damn sure any objective analysis of the reasons for us being in this horrendous mess would suggest that the turnover of managers has been a major contributing factor in our mess. Kid yourself if you want though.

My point is that it’s not managerial turnover nor spending per se that has caused the problems as you seem to be suggesting. It’s flawed decision making from top to bottom and simply allowing “the latest flawed decision” more time in the job alters absolutely nothing at all. I’m really surprised a man of your intelligence thinks it’s simply a case of giving someone time.....surely there has to be some signs (anything) that he has a strategy...that he has shown some strengths. Other than saying the right things is there anything you can point to that suggests he knows what he’s doing. All I can see as a reason for persevering is that old chestnut “when he gets his own players in” so yet another “team for one season”

 

[jonny gently]

Most would love to agree. The facts disagree . Cant work out if he's out of his depth or the players are shot to bits . Supposetime will tell. Give him a run.

He keeps playing the nucleus of the same players who continually let us down. He looks baffled by the fact that 5 at the back isn't working and won't change to a more attacking formation. He's going to stick with O'Shea and Cattermole despite it being obvious to everybody neither can run which is the absolute minimum expected. Then there's that midget goalie and shot-shy striker he brought in. Coleman has been a disaster of clusterfuck proportions.

 

[fredthefan]

Meh

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

My point is that it’s not managerial turnover nor spending per se that has caused the problems as you seem to be suggesting. It’s flawed decision making from top to bottom and simply allowing “the latest flawed decision” more time in the job alters absolutely nothing at all. I’m really surprised a man of your intelligence thinks it’s simply a case of giving someone time.....surely there has to be some signs (anything) that he has a strategy...that he has shown some strengths. Other than saying the right things is there anything you can point to that suggests he knows what he’s doing. All I can see as a reason for persevering is that old chestnut “when he gets his own players in” so yet another “team for one season”

So the flawed decisions are the bad appointments as Manager? Is that your point? My view is that each time a new manager comes in he spends more money on players and wants to jettison previous regime players at a loss. Its a cycle we've followed for years. And this is a big contribution to where we are. My view is you simply can't judge Coleman on where we are - we are in an utter mess with really only one asset in a decent goalscorer who then left. He was not allowed to get a decent keeper or a decent goalscorer in - how anyone could get this turned round I just don't know. Whatever happens I want a manager to be planning from the point when we are relegated. If it is Coleman so be it. The worst situation is what we had last year - chasing McInnes and ending up with Grayson with a few weeks to go to the start of the new season.

 

[Brexit]

Stick on the proviso he guts the squad. Cattermole training with Rodwell, O'Shea leaves, get rid of Kone at all costs, Jones let go, McGeady and McManaman sold. Everybody with a honking attitude and those engrained with failure are binned pronto.

We have a festering, diseased limb that needs lobbed off before it kills us.

 

[bobpc30]

Theee choices for you..

1. Stick with Coleman
2. Replace him with someone experienced used to the lower leagues and small budgets.
3. Try to replicate the “Keane effect” with a high profile ex-player looking for his first job in management.

Option 3 for me.

Who then?

 

[chuckyroll]

He keeps playing the nucleus of the same players who continually let us down. He looks baffled by the fact that 5 at the back isn't working and won't change to a more attacking formation. He's going to stick with O'Shea and Cattermole despite it being obvious to everybody neither can run which is the absolute minimum expected. Then there's that midget goalie and shot-shy striker he brought in. Coleman has been a disaster of clusterfuck proportions.

I agree with most of this however his players were maybe 4th or 5th choice for the sake of numbers , yes many say why bother but we did need bodies in and they havent worked . Also agree he's persisting with tactics that arent working but will any tactic change mke a happeth of difference the 4 at the back didn't. We are going down regardless and if he doesnt walk I think We should see how he does 1st .

 

[Lord Alfred]

So the flawed decisions are the bad appointments as Manager? Is that your point? My view is that each time a new manager comes in he spends more money on players and wants to jettison previous regime players at a loss. Its a cycle we've followed for years. And this is a big contribution to where we are. My view is you simply can't judge Coleman on where we are - we are in an utter mess with really only one asset in a decent goalscorer who then left. He was not allowed to get a decent keeper or a decent goalscorer in - how anyone could get this turned round I just don't know. Whatever happens I want a manager to be planning from the point when we are relegated. If it is Coleman so be it. The worst situation is what we had last year - chasing McInnes and ending up with Grayson with a few weeks to go to the start of the new season.

Boils down to flawed decision making again though. Playing a game of bluff with Moyes and then trying to tout a completely unacceptable package to his successor. That’s what led to the delays and subsequent influx of totally unsuitable players.

The first thing that needs to happen is for Short to come out and categorically state that nothing less than an instant return to the Championship is the priority and that the means to do that will be provided. From that point decisions can be made about strategy and recruitment. If it’s zero investment coupled with sales then we’ll be having this discussion in a years time on the cusp of L2

 

[WHD]

Stick. We need someone to rebuild the club. He seems up for it so we have to support him.

What's he going to rebuild it with?

I think you are absolutely correct and yet some want to just keep the same old pattern of peddling manager after manager. Its now called 'doing a Sunderland' - I'm not even joking, that's what the media calls the short term peddling of managers now.

Have you got a link to any examples? I would think that:
1) we aren't even in anyone's thoughts anymore regarding things like that now we aren't in the prem
2) we only sacked one manager in the last 4 years anyway
3) plenty of other clubs have sacked more managers in that time, including a lot in the premier league

Most would love to agree. The facts disagree . Cant work out if he's out of his depth or the players are shot to bits . Supposetime will tell. Give him a run.

What facts are those mate?

I agree with most of this however his players were maybe 4th or 5th choice for the sake of numbers , yes many say why bother but we did need bodies in and they havent worked . Also agree he's persisting with tactics that arent working but will any tactic change mke a happeth of difference the 4 at the back didn't. We are going down regardless and if he doesnt walk I think We should see how he does 1st .

There's no point in getting "numbers" in if they are no better than what we have already got, especially if these "numbers" go straight into the team like Fletcher, and aren't even just back ups.

The fact is, whoever is manager next season is going to have to put a team together on free transfers, loans, and maybe the odd £50k purchase. Now, it's no good saying Coleman's signings weren't his first choices, as going forward he won't be able to bring in anyone who costs real money. He (or whoever is in charge) is going to have to scour the country and possibly abroad for bargains, and what I've seen of Coleman so far suggests he isn't the man to do that.

 

[Lord Alfred]

Stick on the proviso he guts the squad. Cattermole training with Rodwell, O'Shea leaves, get rid of Kone at all costs, Jones let go, McGeady and McManaman sold.

Aside from having a poor season on the pitch why do you think lumping Cattermole in with Rodwell makes any kind of sense. Surely it’s better to see if there’s something that can be done to rehabilitate a player who’s been a good servant here...as opposed to Rodwell who has been an absolute disgrace here.

You’d also have zero chance of selling McManaman

 

[HBSAFC]

When will our fans realise Short doesn't pick the team or decide tactics? He's never at the stadium and has no influence whatsoever on football matters.

Okay, he's stopped the flow of transfer cash, but plenty of other clubs have spent next to fuck all either. The way some people go on you would think he'd cast a spell over Coleman and the team.

Ffs

Embarrassing you blame everything on managers yet won't say a bad word against Short. With all our failing managers Ellis Short is the common denominator.

Who would you say is mostly to blame for our current situation?

 

[WHD]

Ffs

Embarrassing you blame everything on managers yet won't say a bad word against Short. With all our failing managers Ellis Short is the common denominator.

Who would you say is mostly to blame for our current situation?

Absolute bullshit. I've said it time and time again that as the man at the top he holds ultimate responsibility.

But this mindset that "nothing will change" because of Short is total crap. Do you mean we will continue to drop like a stone regardless of who is the manager? If so, then lets not bother employing one then. Just get Bain to pull names out of a hat to pick the team.

The last three managers have been total failures. The one before that had the team in top half premier league form. The ones previous to him all had relative success. So, when you say "failing managers", what do you mean exactly?

Okay, going forward under Short, we may not get back into the premier league for a long time, but I refuse to accept that all we can expect is to be rooted to the bottom of the championship. Yes, he didn't back either manager this season, but plenty other managers in the championship got fuck all backing and are all above us.

Or situation is a culmination of many different things - overspending, Johnson being jailed, England getting beat of Iceland, not sacking Moyes, employing Grayson. I could go on....

Basically it's been a perfect storm, but Short is the man who has overseen it all. But right now, the blame for being rock bottom of the championship lies at the managers door.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

Aside from having a poor season on the pitch why do you think lumping Cattermole in with Rodwell makes any kind of sense. Surely it’s better to see if there’s something that can be done to rehabilitate a player who’s been a good servant here...as opposed to Rodwell who has been an absolute disgrace here.

You’d also have zero chance of selling McManaman

I agree. My theory on Cattermole, which may very well be wrong, is that he has had so many injuries and played on with injections to get him through games that his body is shot. He's the opposite of the likes of Rodwell who will not play with the slightest twinge. People will say Cattermole's problem is his drinking but I'm not so sure. Despite people hating Cattermole I think he is the least of our problems. Its the same with O'Shea - he's nearly 37 and can't run but will still give 100%. Our problems are more to do with players like Rodwell (obviously), Kone (what was he doing on Saturday) and Ndong and then a whole list of players with no ability whatsoever such as McManaman, Steele, Camp etc.

 

[chriswallace85]

Stick on the proviso he guts the squad. Cattermole training with Rodwell, O'Shea leaves, get rid of Kone at all costs, Jones let go, McGeady and McManaman sold. Everybody with a honking attitude and those engrained with failure are binned pronto.

We have a festering, diseased limb that needs lobbed off before it kills us.

Why should Cattermole train with Rodwell you absolute buffoon?

 

[Brexit]

Why should Cattermole train with Rodwell you absolute buffoon?

To get him and his influence away from the squad and because nobody would buy him. It's fairly simple as long as you aren't as thick as whale spunk.

Aside from having a poor season on the pitch why do you think lumping Cattermole in with Rodwell makes any kind of sense. Surely it’s better to see if there’s something that can be done to rehabilitate a player who’s been a good servant here...as opposed to Rodwell who has been an absolute disgrace here.

You’d also have zero chance of selling McManaman

Why on earth would we want him anywhere near the first team?

 

[chriswallace85]

I agree. My theory on Cattermole, which may very well be wrong, is that he has had so many injuries and played on with injections to get him through games that his body is shot. He's the opposite of the likes of Rodwell who will not play with the slightest twinge. People will say Cattermole's problem is his drinking but I'm not so sure. Despite people hating Cattermole I think he is the least of our problems. Its the same with O'Shea - he's nearly 37 and can't run but will still give 100%. Our problems are more to do with players like Rodwell (obviously), Kone (what was he doing on Saturday) and Ndong and then a whole list of players with no ability whatsoever such as McManaman, Steele, Camp etc.

Bang on.

To get him and his influence away from the squad and because nobody would buy him. It's fairly simple as long as you aren't as thick as whale spunk.

On what grounds?

 

[Lord Alfred]

I agree. My theory on Cattermole, which may very well be wrong, is that he has had so many injuries and played on with injections to get him through games that his body is shot. He's the opposite of the likes of Rodwell who will not play with the slightest twinge. People will say Cattermole's problem is his drinking but I'm not so sure. Despite people hating Cattermole I think he is the least of our problems. Its the same with O'Shea - he's nearly 37 and can't run but will still give 100%. Our problems are more to do with players like Rodwell (obviously), Kone (what was he doing on Saturday) and Ndong and then a whole list of players with no ability whatsoever such as McManaman, Steele, Camp etc.

It always comes down to money ultimately but then it almost always does in football but there are a lot of things we can do to effect a quick change in mentality. The Rodwell situation needs sorting as it’s an absolute distraction for everyone associated with the club....we must agree a payoff with him.

Secondly anyone who’s out of contract should be allowed to leave and of those on loan or who might bring a fee in and who have been shown to have a poor attitude should be moved on.

The next bit is the contentious issue....how much of what comes in do we allow for rebuilding. It can’t be a few hundred thousand...it needs to be a substantial amount (relative to the league) and we need to impose ourselves on the league right from the off. We will be the biggest club in L1 and we need to act as if we are.

 

[Brexit]

On what grounds?

On the grounds that he's tried about 3 times this season, hides from the ball, can't run and several managers during a less than glorious period have singled him out as a bad influence. The latest being Grayson at a talk in a couple of weeks ago. His newest contract will prohibit any sale.

The lad is ingrained with failure and we need to move on. Stick him and his smell with Rodders.