jackynutmeg
Striker
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isn’t it a bit odd / unusual in your opinion that
a) they’d invest in the owners, and not because they see a takeover / further investment in the club a real possibility
b) they’d accept payment of the loan and just walk away despite spending a fortune and a lot of time looking at a deal and even reportedly attending a board meeting
just all seems a bit strange to me
That is the same as being an owner though. In the end they absorb all of the risk if they do this. It begins to creep on their time, they're still the public face of the club, they're still involved way more than they would be as investors who can have input whenever they like, but also don't have to make fundamental decisions or spend time evaluating performance within the business on a regular basis.
Believe me, as an owner who does that, I know that my investors have it better than me They reap all of the benefits and never have to worry about person X leaving or whether to hire person Y. As I say, just because they're rich, doesn't make them immune from bad decisions (see also: Short, E) and they will be conscious of the amount of specialised knowledge needed (and possibly multiple layers) that would fall to them.
Basically, some investors don't want to own things. They're not playthings to them, they're wise investments that yield rewards and yes, have some fun moments that give you good milestones and good stuff like that. Just how it is.
My guess, and of course its a guess is that they ended up quite a bit apart valuation wise and in the not too distant future won't do again.
Its one thing to come out and say FPP is definitely not going to buy us.He basically said they invested in him and the senior management of the club. They won't buy the club without him.
I don't want him to leave. I hope he stays and we get promoted. Just my view.
Very. That's one of the reasons I'm confused.
You don't see investment in management as a key part of deals?
I agree they will likely be disappointed, but it depends whether they were attached to the club or Donald. My guys wouldn't have invested in my company without me, that's pretty much par for the course that if you're hands off, you invest in both the company and it's key personnel.
You don't see investment in management as a key part of deals?
I agree they will likely be disappointed, but it depends whether they were attached to the club or Donald. My guys wouldn't have invested in my company without me, that's pretty much par for the course that if you're hands off, you invest in both the company and it's key personnel.
Investment in management only works if that management has direction, integrity and generates success for their investors.You don't see investment in management as a key part of deals?
I agree they will likely be disappointed, but it depends whether they were attached to the club or Donald. My guys wouldn't have invested in my company without me, that's pretty much par for the course that if you're hands off, you invest in both the company and it's key personnel.
So if your analysis is correct he actually only used 8 million of his own money to buy Sunderland.It is, GOM is correct.
Of that:
£5m was paid up front by Donald as a deposit.
£25m to SBC was paid in August of 2018 (or by that date, I believe it was spread over two financial years just to complicate matters) from parachute payments
and around £6-7m was paid to Ellis Short in April 2019 via a loan that was advancing parachute payments.
Assuming the latter hasn't been paid back (which we haven't heard and it's a source of great interest to me), effectively £32m was used of the club's money to fund the deal and he should owe it back.
"If they were going to buy it", "their preference was to invest not own it", "even if they had bought it".
"Yes but, not but yes but....."
Didn't he say recently they definitely WERE going to buy us? As in, either it all went well under him or else he said they'd use the loan as a buying mechanism for us if stewie couldn't get us performing?Its one thing to come out and say FPP is definitely not going to buy us.
Its another completely to say they are investing in him not the club.
If their forensic analysis of the club's finances, management structure and overall performance came back with that conclusion I'd be absolutely amazed.
This.
Didn't he say recently they definitely WERE going to buy us? As in, either it all went well under him or else he said they'd use the loan as a buying mechanism for us if stewie couldn't get us performing?
Or did I dream that??
I asked the question of @Grumpy Old Man because of late all his responses seem to be firmly on defense of Stewart Donald.
I have owned and run my own businesses all my life so have a basic understanding of accounts but nothing like the depth of knowledge of Grumpy.
I'm retired now and have been beholding to Grumpy in the past for his detailed explanations, but recently his posts appear to me to be biased towards Donald.
When he states Madrox is Madrox and not Sunderland in the full knowledge that Madrox is sole owner of Sunderland, I consider that to be less than clear to forum members who are otherwise not aware of the company structure.
When Grumpy defended Donald's valuation of Sunderland by Donald as greater than the sum of the parts and drew Comparison with the value of Marks and Spenser book value bring considerably less than its stock market value he omitted to highlight that M and S declared substantial profits compared to the financial basket case that is Sunderland.
I raised the question of his relationship with Donald as if they were on friendly terms it would be natural to develop a bias in Donald's favour.
Grumpy clarified this and other posters suggested that he was on better terms with Methven.
Grumpy himself admitted he needed more clarity in his explanation.
Question for everyone: is there anyway back for donald? He says the amercians will leave with him, what if parky gets this squad going and gets us climbing the league again? The amercians dont want to run the club but would fans be happy with donald running in on their behalf if we got promoted?
I haven't got a scooby. None of it makes any sense on the face of it. The Americans are behaving exactly as you'd expect someone interested, but maybe not right now, would behave. They've loaded everything massively in their favour. But Donald says it's not a prelude to them taking control.