SD on Radio Newcastle on Thursday evening

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KittenMittens said:
Head in the sand stuff about FPP. They were hands off investors. They probably did want SD to be in charge, because what are the alternatives? They buy us and then have to appoint a chain of people to run the club, all of whom are ultimately answerable to the 3 blokes at the top who are less qualified than you or I to evaluate how to get out of League One? people at that level of wealth know what they don't know, and they avoid getting into situations where their most valuable commodity - their time - is invested in something that could become a millstone for them.

Some people come in and want to manage a business day to day. Some come in and appoint someone else to do it, but it's their passion and they stay close. Others? They see it as purely financial. There are a number of clubs up divisions who have part owners and full owners who are basically not involved day-to-day. My own business has hands off investors at a similar level. They aren't in it to tell anyone what to do on a day-to-day basis, they're there because they like being part of it and want to see it fulfil it's potential, and hopefully there'll be some fun times along the way and a profit at the end of it.

The biggest mistake we have made as a collective is believing FPP were our saviours. They never were and in their defence, never purported to be. Everything they did was completely normal for what they ended up doing. Not everything is black and white, they can be somewhat in, somewhat out. It doesn't mean they were wrong for us, it doesn't mean they wouldn't be a huge help at some point, it means that for now, they weren't necessarily interested in mucking in on the shop floor, because they'd rather see how a small investment was used before going a bit further in future if they felt they wanted to.

None of this is bad for us. There will still be a club after FPP and Donald are gone.
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I struggle with this post mate. They have the means to buy it and invest in a top chief exec to do everything for them, recruitment, structure etc. It is not a binary choice between donald and doing everything themselves.
 


Not a lot of good news in that lot then. FPP away and no other bids on the horizon. Donald saying it will be 1-2 months away, the other 2 failed bids took a lot longer than that. Difficult to take many positives from that. No mention of Sartori or CM/TD, very much feels like Donald is in control of a rudderless ship at the moment. A worrying interview in so many ways.
 
Kermit said:
Its part of my point mate. Is it? Is it not? If they wanted it they could easily be leaking information about bids to increase the pressure on SD. Both sides are pissing about but we need some clarity on what the state of play is. SD is right about one thing at least. If they wanted it they could have it. Im speculating but i would suggest the difference between what SD wants and what they would like to pay, isnt that great in the grand scheme of things. Say it was £5m over their valuation, whats £5m? Half a bog standard premier league footballer?

If SD is trying to out manoeuvre them by saying they aren't that interested in buying us then i fail to see any logic in that. What advantage could saying that give him in negotiations? Sadly the only conclusion i can draw from that is that it is one of the few things he has stated that is probably factually accurate. If, however he is the one f*cking around, asking daft prices, he should be ran out if town. It is rare for me to not be able to form a definitive point of view on a subject, but i am snookered here. There is so much smoke and mirrors i dont know what to think.
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Why would they? They’ve seen the mess he’s leaving with his PR initiative, so if they have any sense they’d stay well out of it.
 
KittenMittens said:
Head in the sand stuff about FPP. They were hands off investors. They probably did want SD to be in charge, because what are the alternatives? They buy us and then have to appoint a chain of people to run the club, all of whom are ultimately answerable to the 3 blokes at the top who are less qualified than you or I to evaluate how to get out of League One? people at that level of wealth know what they don't know, and they avoid getting into situations where their most valuable commodity - their time - is invested in something that could become a millstone for them.

Some people come in and want to manage a business day to day. Some come in and appoint someone else to do it, but it's their passion and they stay close. Others? They see it as purely financial. There are a number of clubs up divisions who have part owners and full owners who are basically not involved day-to-day. My own business has hands off investors at a similar level. They aren't in it to tell anyone what to do on a day-to-day basis, they're there because they like being part of it and want to see it fulfil it's potential, and hopefully there'll be some fun times along the way and a profit at the end of it.

The biggest mistake we have made as a collective is believing FPP were our saviours. They never were and in their defence, never purported to be. Everything they did was completely normal for what they ended up doing. Not everything is black and white, they can be somewhat in, somewhat out. It doesn't mean they were wrong for us, it doesn't mean they wouldn't be a huge help at some point, it means that for now, they weren't necessarily interested in mucking in on the shop floor, because they'd rather see how a small investment was used before going a bit further in future if they felt they wanted to.

None of this is bad for us. There will still be a club after FPP and Donald are gone.
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What's confusing me mightily is the underlying documentation. There are clauses in the charge document and the pre-emption waiver filed recently, all designed to enable FPP to take control of Madrox, which Mrs G has never seen in 20 years of handling tax aspects of international M&A, corporate finance, and capital restructuring. That's not normal. Nor is 3 individuals lending money to a tier 3 club as individuals, rather than the investment funds they run for their day job. Nothing adds up when you combine them with Donald's statements. Somebody, maybe everybody, is bluffing here.
 
bootle mackem said:
Not a lot of good news in that lot then. FPP away and no other bids on the horizon. Donald saying it will be 1-2 months away, the other 2 failed bids took a lot longer than that. Difficult to take many positives from that. No mention of Sartori or CM/TD, very much feels like Donald is in control of a rudderless ship at the moment. A worrying interview in so many ways.
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Did you actually believe a word he said? He contradicted himself over and over again. Why would people invest in a insurance salesman who once owned a conference team?
 
Kermit said:
Its part of my point mate. Is it? Is it not? If they wanted it they could easily be leaking information about bids to increase the pressure on SD. Both sides are pissing about but we need some clarity on what the state of play is. SD is right about one thing at least. If they wanted it they could have it. Im speculating but i would suggest the difference between what SD wants and what they would like to pay, isnt that great in the grand scheme of things. Say it was £5m over their valuation, whats £5m? Half a bog standard premier league footballer?

If SD is trying to out manoeuvre them by saying they aren't that interested in buying us then i fail to see any logic in that. What advantage could saying that give him in negotiations? Sadly the only conclusion i can draw from that is that it is one of the few things he has stated that is probably factually accurate. If, however he is the one f*cking around, asking daft prices, he should be ran out if town. It is rare for me to not be able to form a definitive point of view on a subject, but i am snookered here. There is so much smoke and mirrors i dont know what to think.
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One thing is for sure, Donald can't sell without their permission and pays all the money back he has borrowed.. He will use any profit from a sale to repay the parachute payments money , as he promised on TS tonight, he used to buy the club.
 
Kermit said:
I struggle with this post mate. They have the means to buy it and invest in a top chief exec to do everything for them, recruitment, structure etc. It is not a binary choice between donald and doing everything themselves.
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That is the same as being an owner though. In the end they absorb all of the risk if they do this. It begins to creep on their time, they're still the public face of the club, they're still involved way more than they would be as investors who can have input whenever they like, but also don't have to make fundamental decisions or spend time evaluating performance within the business on a regular basis.

Believe me, as an owner who does that, I know that my investors have it better than me :D They reap all of the benefits and never have to worry about person X leaving or whether to hire person Y. As I say, just because they're rich, doesn't make them immune from bad decisions (see also: Short, E) and they will be conscious of the amount of specialised knowledge needed (and possibly multiple layers) that would fall to them.

Basically, some investors don't want to own things. They're not playthings to them, they're wise investments that yield rewards and yes, have some fun moments that give you good milestones and good stuff like that. Just how it is.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
What's confusing me mightily is the underlying documentation. There are clauses in the charge document and the pre-emption waiver filed recently, all designed to enable FPP to take control of Madrox, which Mrs G has never seen in 20 years of handling tax aspects of international M&A, corporate finance, and capital restructuring. That's not normal. Nor is 3 individuals lending money to a tier 3 club as individuals, rather than the investment funds they run for their day job. Nothing adds up when you combine them with Donald's statements. Somebody, maybe everybody, is bluffing here.
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Donald has ruled them out and put a 1-2 months time frame on the sale of the club. I know who my money is on as the bluffer.
 
Bears Beets said:
Did you actually believe a word he said? He contradicted himself over and over again. Why would people invest in a insurance salesman who once owned a conference team?
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Not particularly no, a lot of bluff and waffle but not a lot of positive. If he is trying to sell the club then his first interview in weeks wasn’t full of hope for the future and raising the price.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
What's confusing me mightily is the underlying documentation. There are clauses in the charge document and the pre-emption waiver filed recently, all designed to enable FPP to take control of Madrox, which Mrs G has never seen in 20 years of handling tax aspects of international M&A, corporate finance, and capital restructuring. That's not normal. Nor is 3 individuals lending money to a tier 3 club as individuals, rather than the investment funds they run for their day job. Nothing adds up when you combine them with Donald's statements. Somebody, maybe everybody, is bluffing here.
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It's slightly unnerving that our partners have the same jobs :D

It may be that they were happy to accept the club as collateral instead of anything else of Donald's, which presumably was preferable to him too. They were clearly interested in us as a project, a scheme, an investment of types, but just not in owning us outright and making day-to-day decisions, or even being responsible for them further up the chain. I think it was a bit of a hit and hope job, there was no major ties to them and they could let go at any moment, but if anything went really well, they could jump in to whatever level they wanted, including (if they changed their minds) full ownership.

The deal looks very favourable to them I agree, I think it gave them absolute flexibility to do as they pleased, but I do think it's entirely plausible that Donald's vision was attractive to them when combined with the existing facilities. I think he probably feels embarrassed that he's sold a lot of that vision on how good the fans are, and is now being forced out by us... whoever 'us' is anymore.
 
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molthemackem said:
If will not be FPP.. He sounded panicky to me in his waffle
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He reckons he still has their money and it hasn't been touched. He reckons he has other buyers and is anticipating a fairly quick sale. He reckons he doesn't need their money because the club is in great shape. He reckons he will still invest in the squad this month. I'm not sure on any of it.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
What's confusing me mightily is the underlying documentation. There are clauses in the charge document and the pre-emption waiver filed recently, all designed to enable FPP to take control of Madrox, which Mrs G has never seen in 20 years of handling tax aspects of international M&A, corporate finance, and capital restructuring. That's not normal. Nor is 3 individuals lending money to a tier 3 club as individuals, rather than the investment funds they run for their day job. Nothing adds up when you combine them with Donald's statements. Somebody, maybe everybody, is bluffing here.
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So now what?
 
DJP said:
Seems like a lot of people on here already had their knives sharpened this evening before Stewart Donald opened his mouth. Those saying he hasn't spent a penny seem to conveniently forget about the court cases that cost the club millions during his tenure, the overpaid players like Rodwell, Djilobodji and N'Dong who were bleeding the club dry and killing our wage bill. Apparently we've spent nowt even though the fee for Grigg was bigger than the transfer budget of all the other League One clubs put together. The recruitment last summer was abysmal though.

Yes, it is shit at the minute. I would have preferred Donald to stay having sacked Parkinson but I guess that isn't going to happen. That would have been a fair compromise if you like.
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A fair compromise would be to sell up to whoever has the cash and nous to have some experience in running the club successfully. Or at least the ability to employ people to do so. He's been a disaster on this front.
 
richest said:
So now what?
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I haven't got a scooby. None of it makes any sense on the face of it. The Americans are behaving exactly as you'd expect someone interested, but maybe not right now, would behave. They've loaded everything massively in their favour. But Donald says it's not a prelude to them taking control.
 
bootle mackem said:
Not particularly no, a lot of bluff and waffle but not a lot of positive. If he is trying to sell the club then his first interview in weeks wasn’t full of hope for the future and raising the price.
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I agree, however imo he’s bluffing, he realises the majority of the fans don’t want him and thinks by bullshitting that FPP don’t want the club, the fans will jump back on side.
He’s lied and lied and lied again to the point where no one believes a word he says. Some fans are wanting to give him another chance to get us promoted, the rest want him gone. The fans getting behind Donald are blaming the fans for the shit storm which is becoming the narrative from the top of the club. What a mess and it’s down to one person.
 
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