Job applications - pretending to be bisexual

Roger said:
The thing is "welcoming applications" shouldn't come into it and shouldn't need to be mentioned. It should be a given.

As with all jobs, the best candidate should be offered it regardless of gender/sexuality/race/religion.
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I agree.


Meanwhile in the real world......
 


Roaring Chubby said:
Not sure what you mean there kev lad
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Nothing sinister or anything like that. You seem to acknowledge that, in your workplace, choosing under represented groups can receive preferential treatment. I don’t have that experience and I simply wondered what your opinion is. Have you, for example, been denied a promotion over someone else who is in a minority group because of this rather than on merit? If yes, what’s that system like to work in?
 
Roger said:
The thing is "welcoming applications" shouldn't come into it and shouldn't need to be mentioned. It should be a given.

As with all jobs, the best candidate should be offered it regardless of gender/sexuality/race/religion.
Click to expand...
Indeed.

I just actually looked at the whole advert and it's Nottingham Council. Having interviewed many applicants for varying roles in a Council I can guarantee the best person will get the job. Giving it to someone who isn't the best person for the job just because they tick an equality box isn't going to wash.
 
Roger said:
The thing is "welcoming applications" shouldn't come into it and shouldn't need to be mentioned. It should be a given.

As with all jobs, the best candidate should be offered it regardless of gender/sexuality/race/religion.
Click to expand...
In a perfect world yes.

In order to increase the number of people applying for jobs they don’t traditionally apply for, we unfortunately need to speak it out sometimes. “Don’t be afraid to apply for this job if you’re not what you traditionally think of as working in this industry”.
 
Kevj said:
Nothing sinister or anything like that. You seem to acknowledge that, in your workplace, choosing under represented groups can receive preferential treatment. I don’t have that experience and I simply wondered what your opinion is. Have you, for example, been denied a promotion over someone else who is in a minority group because of this rather than on merit? If yes, what’s that system like to work in?
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I work for a really big company, for the bigger/better jobs, it’s more tap on the shoulder than apply so you don’t neccasarily get bombed out with an application, but the trends in who are appointed are obvious. Other countries have more relaxed rules on positive discrimination too (some roles are “global” so not U.K. law). In terms of what it’s like to work in, without a doubt it pisses off white men who are the critical mass of the company. Generally speaking, educated people totally accept equal opportunity but it grinds peoples gears when positive discrimination is in play. LOADS of non white and female people from privilidged back grounds benefit big time from what is going on right now.
 
Kevj said:
This. It’s implied. Once the HR team have such a mandate, it would be difficult to choose a candidate who doesn’t meet this criteria. The entire situation is bollocks. People should get a job on merit and experience. Nothing else.
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The barest glance at employment statistics should put you at rest then. By your logic white straight men would be in the minority in jobs, as opposed to the overwhelming majority which is actually the case. Theres mountains of evidence that employers turn down many applicants on non-British sounding name alone, regardless of what the legislation says. It's basically impossible to prove at application stage that you've been turned down for not being white or a bloke, it happens all the time.

Roaring Chubby said:
I work for a really big company, for the bigger/better jobs, it’s more tap on the shoulder than apply so you don’t neccasarily get bombed out with an application, but the trends in who are appointed are obvious. Other countries have more relaxed rules on positive discrimination too (some roles are “global” so not U.K. law). In terms of what it’s like to work in, without a doubt it pisses off white men who are the critical mass of the company. Generally speaking, educated people totally accept equal opportunity but it grinds peoples gears when positive discrimination is in play. LOADS of non white and female people from privilidged back grounds benefit big time from what is going on right now.
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If you look at the statistics though English males are frequently the lowest achievers in education and qualification in comparison to people from other countries, usually only speak one language etc. When talking the top tier jobs in multinational companies, so the elite of the elite, im not surprised they're not well represented. There is a culture of hard work and excellence inbred into certain cultures, especially those Asia ones, which far outstrips ours. Now it's usually a trade off in that many people from those cultures are denied many aspects of child hood and adolescence that we take for granted in order to get them there, but it produces elite workers, no question. You've also got the fact that many people from immigrant communities have developed a capacity to work and excel in it out of the need to survive, again something that puts them over the top. Many Eastern European countries also have national service still giving them skills and discipline many British lads never develop.

* Asian ones I meant to say. Those Asian ones sounds abit Alf Garnet
 
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Roger said:
The thing is "welcoming applications" shouldn't come into it and shouldn't need to be mentioned. It should be a given.

As with all jobs, the best candidate should be offered it regardless of gender/sexuality/race/religion.
Click to expand...
I daresay for you and me it's a given. My mixed race wife has found that her applications have not always been welcomed however and I think it's for people like her to be assured that they are aware of that reality and that they do not condone it.

As with most things relating to gender/sexuality/religion etc I find that if it's not immediately apparent to me why something should be it helps to pause and consider that in that case it's not for me and my opinion doesn't really matter if it's not affecting me and that there are probably other people it does apply which is why it's there in which case that's for them to feel something about one way or another.

It's nice to assume the world is equal and fair and that everyone gets treated the same, but it's not and they don't. That's why these things exist.
 
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sonson said:
The barest glance at employment statistics should put you at rest then. By your logic white straight men would be in the minority in jobs, as opposed to the overwhelming majority which is actually the case. Theres mountains of evidence that employers turn down many applicants on non-British sounding name alone, regardless of what the legislation says. It's basically impossible to prove at application stage that you've been turned down for not being white or a bloke, it happens all the time.


If you look at the statistics though English males are frequently the lowest achievers in education and qualification in comparison to people from other countries, usually only speak one language etc. When talking the top tier jobs in multinational companies, so the elite of the elite, im not surprised they're not well represented. There is a culture of hard work and excellence inbred into certain cultures, especially those Asia ones, which far outstrips ours. Now it's usually a trade off in that many people from those cultures are denied many aspects of child hood and adolescence that we take for granted in order to get them there, but it produces elite workers, no question. You've also got the fact that many people from immigrant communities have developed a capacity to work and excel in it out of the need to survive, again something that puts them over the top. Many Eastern European countries also have national service still giving them skills and discipline many British lads never develop.

* Asian ones I meant to say. Those Asian ones sounds abit Alf Garnet
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Wow. You have gone off on a major tangent there. Let’s see these stats. Seeing as you are talking about lots of generalised positive traits of the Asian communities versus the western ones, are we allowed to talk about the negative ones too? Or will I be a big fat racist?

sonson said:
I daresay for you and me it's a given. My mixed race wife has found that her applications have not always been welcomed however and I think it's for people like her to be assured that they are aware of that reality and that they do not condone it.

As with most things relating to gender/sexuality/religion etc I find that if it's not immediately apparent to me why something should be it helps to pause and consider that in that case it's not for me and my opinion doesn't really matter if it's not affecting me and that there are probably other people it does apply which is why it's there in which case that's for them to feel something about one way or another.

It's nice to assume the world is equal and fair and that everyone gets treated the same, but it's not and they don't. That's why these things exist.
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Can you elaborate on where and when your mixed race wife’s applications were unwelcome as I’d be astounded if anywhere in the West would treat her negatively these days. Most wouldn’t give a toss (and rightly so).
 
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Makes sense, get them to apply. Pass their details to a local group of real patriots who will set them and their house alight. Well done these private sector company’s, heard the vermin in the labour nhs are actively dismissing men for being white.
 
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Steeeeed said:
Indeed.

I just actually looked at the whole advert and it's Nottingham Council. Having interviewed many applicants for varying roles in a Council I can guarantee the best person will get the job. Giving it to someone who isn't the best person for the job just because they tick an equality box isn't going to wash.
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I work for a Council, interview candidiates and can assure you the exact opposite. :(
 

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