RAWA End of season Club/RAWA Meeting

Abu Dhabi Red and White said:
There seems to be a reluctance to accept that it would be a good aim to get information out quickly or at least examine the communication processes. Fans wanting to get info from their elected reps seem to be getting belittled.
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I've been involved in meetings like this one in a business context before. Even with all sides consisting of full-timers, getting minutes out in less than a month would be considered pretty good going. Given that everyone on the supporters side of the meeting is a volunteer with jobs, families, and the rest of life to be getting on with, I'd say getting to where we are within two weeks of the meeting (which was on the evening of the 13th, in case that's been forgotten) is actually pretty good going.

Until the approval happens, I can't even give a hint of what's happened. There are reasons for this, and none of them are to do with the club.
 
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Wearside Wanderer II said:
The rules that all parties agree to the wording of minutes before release.
How difficult is it to understand?
It’s common in all businesses we are not unique or clandestine it’s just normal business etiquette
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Stick them on a site (password protected if you like) and get a commitment that they are checked the next day. If the volunteers can't cope with that, they could be replaced.

Grumpy Old Man said:
I've been involved in meetings like this one in a business context before. Even with all sides consisting of full-timers, getting minutes out in less than a month would be considered pretty good going. Given that everyone on the supporters side of the meeting is a volunteer with jobs, families, and the rest of life to be getting on with, I'd say getting to where we are within two weeks of the meeting (which was on the evening of the 13th, in case that's been forgotten) is actually pretty good going.
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I think there should be a target and willingness agreed upon of improving the turnaround time - I think the reps should accept that would be desired by most of their groups.
 
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Abu Dhabi Red and White said:
Stick them on a site (password protected if you like) and get a commitment that they are checked the next day. If the volunteers can't cope with that, they could be replaced.


I think there should be a target and willingness agreed upon of improving the turnaround time - I think the reps should accept that would be desired by most of their groups.
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Sorry, you're being unrealistic here. That's not intended to be patronising. There were 15 representatives from the various supporters groups, and 4 from the club. All of those people have different availabilities and ability to respond. What do you want? Fast and garbled/wrong or slower and comprehensible and accurate?
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
There's your fundamental mistake. The club can and do take action points away. It's fan engagement. A Q&A is what they do on a Friday night at a working men's club. The aim of this is actually to get things done where possible. Clearly, that side is limited when it comes to things like finance. It's very real when it comes to matchday stuff.
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Not sure you realise how condescending you are . The Friday night comment is reminiscent of Methven’s similar approach on the podcast.

I’m referring to the takoever and finance questions on the bullet point agenda that was posted . I understand that you were invited to attend so that you would be able to ask certain questions in an informed manner around the finance with particular focus on the outstanding loan and when Madrox will be putting the Parachute payment back in and whether there is a legal obligation to do so or it’s just a moral one . I wasn’t aware that you had another formal role . I’m purely interested in those pertinent financial questions. They will have been on a Q and A basis because we can never influence those.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Sorry, you're being unrealistic here. That's not intended to be patronising. There were 15 representatives from the various supporters groups, and 4 from the club. All of those people have different availabilities and ability to respond. What do you want? Fast and garbled/wrong or slower and comprehensible and accurate?
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The longer it takes for people to look at things, the less they are likely to remember. Quicker checking and reflection will give greater accuracy - or (I don't mean to be patronising) would you prefer less accurate recollections?
It doesn't matter about the number of reps - they can still check the next day and in all probability will agree to sign things off or suggest a minor change.
Think outside of the box - we are not talking about spending the annual budget of a company here, it might be what the Senior Supporter's club wish to be the day of their meetings.
 
seanwharton said:
Not sure you realise how condescending you are . The Friday night comment is reminiscent of Methven’s similar approach on the podcast.

I’m referring to the takoever and finance questions on the bullet point agenda that was posted . I understand that you were invited to attend so that you would be able to ask certain questions in an informed manner around the finance with particular focus on the outstanding loan and when Madrox will be putting the Parachute payment back in and whether there is a legal obligation to do so or it’s just a moral one . I wasn’t aware that you had another formal role . I’m purely interested in those pertinent financial questions. They will have been on a Q and A basis because we can never influence those.
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I don't have a formal role. But the minutes as they pertain to finance are just that. Part of the minutes, and I'm not at liberty to divulge any of that until the entire minutes are published. I got involved in the drafting because a) the notes taken by the RAWa chairman (who takes the minutes) had to be checked for accuracy and b) it became apparent that, in their original form, it was difficult for non-accountants to follow. Hopefully, I've managed to address those problems and it will become clear when the minutes are released.
 
Abu Dhabi Red and White said:
The longer it takes for people to look at things, the less they are likely to remember. Quicker checking and reflection will give greater accuracy - or (I don't mean to be patronising) would you prefer less accurate recollections?
It doesn't matter about the number of reps - they can still check the next day and in all probability will agree to sign things off or suggest a minor change.
Think outside of the box - we are not talking about spending the annual budget of a company here, it might be what the Senior Supporter's club wish to be the day of their meetings.
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The first draft came out about four or five days after the meeting. What went to the club was at the very least a third draft. People aren't deliberately dragging their feet. I turned round what I was asked to do in a couple of hours each time.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Blame me then. I was still trying to make some of the finance stuff comprehensible at the weekend, following comments that it was difficult to understand. The club doesn't see the minutes until everyone else has. I, and everyone else, has no interest in covering things up. Among other things, I need to be seen as independent of the club when I'm writing stuff.
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It's all your fault Grumps, you useless bugger ;)
 
SPUFF said:
Grumps travelled from Bristol too ffs so hats off.
Or is it easier to sit on your arse n moan.
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That’s not the point being made . GOM and others are doing this for no reward and for the benefit of others and people are garstefil for that .The point is three or four or the issues discussed namely finances,investment and preseason could be become redundant before the rest of the fanbase hear what Methven said . If there has to be formal minutes then that’s fine although it’s probably superfluous then we could have had bullet points on what CM had to say . That can be agreed on the day or by return .
 
seanwharton said:
The point is three or four or the issues discussed namely finances,investment and preseason could be become redundant before the rest of the fanbase hear what Methven said .
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what specifically are you thinking about that fans may urgently need to hear and that would be a big issue if we don't hear before the minutes are out?

I can't imagine there being pretty much anything discussed that any fan urgently needs to hear. It's nice to be included on what is going on but if this whole meeting didn't happen, would anything actually be any different in reality?
 
flusheding said:
what specifically are you thinking about that fans may urgently need to hear and that would be a big issue if we don't hear before the minutes are out?

I can't imagine there being pretty much anything discussed that any fan urgently needs to hear. It's nice to be included on what is going on but if this whole meeting didn't happen, would anything actually be any different in reality?
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The idea behind GOM attending was to have someone qualified asking the financial questions outstanding after the podcast and other media done by the club’s leadership. That in the sense of the present hiatus in terms of the investment , lack of recruitment or obvious plans for a full preseason are pressing and things the fanbase want to know about . The club can say we don’t have to say anything but that wouldn’t be transparent and Donald is clear that’s how he wants it to be . That’s how it would be different
 
seanwharton said:
The idea behind GOM attending was to have someone qualified asking the financial questions outstanding after the podcast and other media done by the club’s leadership. That in the sense of the present hiatus in terms of the investment , lack of recruitment or obvious plans for a full preseason are pressing and things the fanbase want to know about . The club can say we don’t have to say anything but that wouldn’t be transparent and Donald is clear that’s how he wants it to be . That’s how it would be different
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But where is the urgency in needing that info? That just sounds like things you'd like to know about, not that would actually make a real difference if you did or didn't know the outcome.

Thinks that would actually would make a difference in my eyes would be if the meeting minutes said something like "The south stand will not be serving alcohol in the first game" and then because you haven't managed to see that info you may go off at half time looking for a pint and coming back empty handed. It's the sort of difference between actual fan physical interactions and just the owner being more open and telling us interesting bits of info that other clubs might not be privy to.
 
seanwharton said:
The idea behind GOM attending was to have someone qualified asking the financial questions outstanding after the podcast and other media done by the club’s leadership. That in the sense of the present hiatus in terms of the investment , lack of recruitment or obvious plans for a full preseason are pressing and things the fanbase want to know about . The club can say we don’t have to say anything but that wouldn’t be transparent and Donald is clear that’s how he wants it to be . That’s how it would be different
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Believe me, not being able to say anything is as frustrating for me as it is for you, and not just on the financial stuff. But the protocols are in place for a reason, and it's not my place to run roughshod over them.
 
People need to back off a little here like. I remember it wasn't that long ago when RAWA were formed people were saying they were just another group that would pander to the club and accept lip service. They've asked the questions that people wanted asking. Let's see what comes out in the wash.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Believe me, not being able to say anything is as frustrating for me as it is for you, and not just on the financial stuff. But the protocols are in place for a reason, and it's not my place to run roughshod over them.
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No I get that but where we will still disagree is I think that the headlines from Methven could have been bullet pointed but I understand the agreed protocol doesn’t allow it . My frustration is two fold in that the wider fanbase doesn’t have the assurance over one or two of the ambiguous financial comments from the owner and secondly the sense of a closed shop which I accept is just perception
It’s not a criticism or a sign of a lack of gratitude to people giving their time up just a point of view
 

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