East Coast line to be taken back into public ownership again

Discussion in 'SMB' started by Flared Hicks, May 16, 2018.

  1. Boris Bear

    Boris Bear Striker

    I don’t know the answer...hence the question mark?

    If he knows someone in the industry he’s showing no sign of it

    Evolution of rail franchising forms part of UK government’s new ‘strategic vision for rail’
  2. Wilfy

    Wilfy Striker

    Definitely this. They fucked up.
  3. Boris Bear

    Boris Bear Striker

    Honestly if they’ve handed back the franchise it’s because the contract allows them to do so
  4. Dmac1969

    Dmac1969 Winger

  5. If you haven't fucked up on your numbers, why would you hand it back?
    zwartekat likes this.
  6. Aldyyyy

    Aldyyyy Winger

    The rewards system was class when it was the east coast mainline, hopefully that returns. Load of shite getting nectar points when it was virgin.
  7. mickeymoor

    mickeymoor Full Back

    Is this not how they make money such as Mcdonald

    the government for the taxpayer owns it, so does not have to pay a franchise fee it it did it would be paying to itself
  8. pavarotti1980

    pavarotti1980 Midfield

  9. duff_man

    duff_man Striker

    Didn't exactly go to plan last time they played train sets on the ECML
  10. Boris Bear

    Boris Bear Striker

    Maybe they have and they’ve paid the price

    It’s says that it happened so more than a vision. So yes....every operator spends a lot of money on infrastructure.

    You learned something today
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  11. pavarotti1980

    pavarotti1980 Midfield

    Apart from this statement:

    Building on Network Rail’s recent devolution of infrastructure management to route-based businesses, the plans include complementary changes to the franchising system to ensure that the railway is prepared to manage the challenges of the future, while maintaining the railway infrastructure in public ownership.

    It appears you have no understanding of Network Rail devolution plan either.

    What they did was go from an autocratic national setup to a more autonamous regional set up to allow for greater flexibility to respond to local demands and pressures as part of public/private partnerships whilst the control of it is still 100% with Network Rail.

    Now you could compare this to the NHS. Private companies operate within in it but it is still under public control. Have a look at the https://assets.publishing.service.g...tachment_data/file/663124/rail-vision-web.pdf. Its quite enlightening

    More experts could be renationalised after East Coast fiasco | Daily Mail Online

    Seems you were a bit premature in your lauding of Arriva (your company) as they appear to be not doing very well on the Northern franchise.......
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  12. Boris Bear

    Boris Bear Striker

    Arriva are doing very well on the Northern franchise and there's no substance in the suggestion that the government could take it back. Is this where you take your knowledge from...the Daily Mail :lol:

    Also, good job on ignoring the bit about devolution of infrastructure management.
  13. pavarotti1980

    pavarotti1980 Midfield

    No its actually the Times if you read it properly i just gave you that for the beneift of not having to subscribe to the Times.

    it seems you cant read. I have posted and you have quoted about the devolution. Do they not give the plan to the ticket inspectors anymore? I even posted a link for the actual document, not a post from an inductry magazine.
  14. National Express have already failed at running the ECML.
  15. pavarotti1980

    pavarotti1980 Midfield

    And allegedly he works in the rail industry. Arriva most likely. You would think he would know such basic facts......:eek::eek:
  16. Boris Bear

    Boris Bear Striker


    Where did I say that I work in the rail industry?
  17. pavarotti1980

    pavarotti1980 Midfield

    Thats why i put allegedly given your inferences to suggest you know everything about it

  18. Boris Bear

    Boris Bear Striker

    Who knows the industry the best...the Mail, the times, Andy Burnham or people in the industry? Let me put it in order for you...Industry, Andy Burnham, Times, Mail, you.

    What you don't get here is that most of this stuff remains in public ownership, even though the operators invest hugely in it. When a franchise ends they have to completely hand over an operating company, staff, equipment, hardware, software, etc, etc. They don't own the trains...they can't even sign key contracts without getting approval from the DfT. Even so, the operators invest in infrastructure of their own and infrastructure that they own or manage temporarily. This is why it's virtually impossible for a small player to take on a franchise.

    The vast majority of the staff working for stagecoach and virgin would have previously worked for National Express and they will work for the government tomorrow (or possibly Arup who seem to be stepping in to do interim work for the government). Virtually none of them would have considered themselves Virgin or Stagecoach employees...they would have considered themselves as East Coat Railway staff.

    Not everything...just more than you, which isn't difficult
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  19. pavarotti1980

    pavarotti1980 Midfield

    You are completely ignoring the fact i am not making any reference to the TOCs and what they do with franchises. I have consistently maintained the fact that under the auspices of Network Rail track and track side stuff is done by them or their subcontracted partners eg Story, Amey etc. This has nothing to do with who bought the uniforms of the train driver, who looks after the Wifi. You keep bringing this up and it is of no interest to me or relevant to the initial point i made regarding the important infrastructure of bits of metal that trains run on.

    I have asked continually which TOC actually provides trackside maintenance to repair junctions, signals etc and you keep bouncing it back to the information boards every time. I couldnt give a shit who does that, but interestingly nothing changes when a franchise ends apart from the corporate stuff.

    So apart from the alliance working of the TOCs and Network Rail such as the shared control centres and morning meetings following the 2016/17 devolution it appears your only knowledge of the train industry is restricted to what happens in a station, hence my picture of Harry Enfield.

    Unless of course you can come back and say you work as employee of a rail company in a strategic role????

    Ps the article in the Times (quoted in the Mail) was by Adrian Quine who is a Railway Analyst. I suspect he knows a little bit more than most
  20. Boris Bear

    Boris Bear Striker

    I said:
    DfT rules require that they make investments in infrastructure so the government doesn’t have to.

    You said:
    Network Rail manage infrastructure. They are a public body

    I said:
    Franchise operators manage infrastructure too

    You said:
    Apparently private operators run their own infrastructure (with the exception of stations). This is not the case. There is a fact. Care to rebut it?

    So your 'fact' is wrong :lol::lol:

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