do you believe the universe...

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ighty seven said:
...just spontaneously burst into existence (Big Bang style, or whatever)?

..or that it was willed into existence?

and if you believe it was willed into existence does that mean you believe in God?

I mean, do whole universes just pop into existence for no reason?
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At the initial event, time and space came into existence and light travelled one Planck unit of length in one Planck unit of time (extremely small vales) and the Laws of Physics were made manifest and there was universal stability such that the universe did not collapse.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Genesis)

Form is emptiness and the very emptiness is form
Emptiness does not differ from form, form does not differ from emptiness, whatever is emptiness, that is form (Heart Sutra)

We must assume the following:

1 All that is needed for reality is contained within reality so reality must be self contained
2 If there was something outside reality that was needed for reality then reality would collapse
3 A God cannot exist external to reality because such a God would be part of reality and contained within reality anyway.
4 Therefore their can be no external creator God.

We can also assume:

1 There was no such thing as Absolute Nothing before the Event as such Absolute Nothing would have absolutely No Potential and could not change.
2 Therefore as we can assume that before the event there could only be Nothing with Infinite Potentialities
3 A Nothing that was not limited, not finite, and unbounded.
4 A Quantum Field of Zero Point energy would be such a Nothing with Infinite Potentialities.
5 Universal Wave Function Collapse occurred and a single reality emerged from among the infinite number of potentialities.

Therefore the universe self-actualised.
 
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Mercia Blackcat said:
At the initial event, time and space came into existence and light travelled one Planck unit of length in one Planck unit of time (extremely small vales) and the Laws of Physics were made manifest and there was universal stability such that the universe did not collapse.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Genesis)

Form is emptiness and the very emptiness is form
Emptiness does not differ from form, form does not differ from emptiness, whatever is emptiness, that is form (Heart Sutra)

We must assume the following:

1 All that is needed for reality is contained within reality so reality must be self contained
2 If there was something outside reality that was needed for reality then reality would collapse
3 A God cannot exist external to reality because such a God would be part of reality and contained within reality anyway.
4 Therefore their can be no external creator God.

We can also assume:

1 There was no such thing as Absolute Nothing before the Event as such Absolute Nothing would have absolutely No Potential and could not change.
2 Therefore as we can assume that before the event there could only be Nothing with Infinite Potentialities
3 A Nothing that was not limited, not finite, and unbounded.
4 A Quantum Field of Zero Point energy would be such a Nothing with Infinite Potentialities.
5 Universal Wave Function Collapse occurred and a single reality emerged from among the infinite number of potentialities.

Therefore the universe self-actualised.
Click to expand...
was just going to suggest that we needed Mercia Blackcats take on it
personally i find the phrase 'big bang' to be misleading it suggests a momment of absolute violence and chaos when surely in order for the process to continue(and for it not to wink out of existence just as quickly) it has to be a moment of absolute perfection harmony and balance. If so who knows how many times the singularity winked in and out of existence before reaching this moment and realising its potential
 
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daventry cat said:
was just going to suggest that we needed Mercia Blackcats take on it
personally i find the phrase 'big bang' to be misleading it suggests a momment of absolute violence and chaos when surely in order for the process to continue(and for it not to wink out of existence just as quickly) it has to be a moment of absolute perfection harmony and balance. If so who knows how many times the singularity winked in and out of existence before reaching this moment and realising its potential
Click to expand...

Considering 'big bang' was a term invoked by Fred Hoyle a steady state advocate to mock the concept of an inflationary universe, it's ironic it's now so commonly used to describe a theory he was so vehemently opposed to. Quite sad that for many it's how he'll be remembered taking in to account his huge contribution to our understanding of stellar nucleosynthesis and in turn everything we are made of.
 
daventry cat said:
was just going to suggest that we needed Mercia Blackcats take on it
personally i find the phrase 'big bang' to be misleading it suggests a momment of absolute violence and chaos when surely in order for the process to continue(and for it not to wink out of existence just as quickly) it has to be a moment of absolute perfection harmony and balance. If so who knows how many times the singularity winked in and out of existence before reaching this moment and realising its potential
Click to expand...

Good point. If it was a quantum state then we examine microscopic space there is no dimension or space but also no arrow of time. This is the ground state of the universe and it pervades the universe. Virtual particles and their opposites are coming in to and out of existence all the time. This quantum foam. Maybe what happened was two particles created at the same time and quantum entanglement happened.

What is also interesting when the first physics occurred following the laws of the universe, there must have been instant tele feedback confirming the laws of psychics were stable. This must have happened before the first Planck Unit of time had passed. Instant and faster than light. Then with the arrival of time cause and effect moved apart Classical physics was born.

And God saw the light, that it was good:

A question remains in that if the universe is really a single quantum field, then what is the procedure by which in the quantum field, an infinite number or potentialities collapse and the single one we call reality is the one left. You are doing that every single moment you exist and function within this universal quantum field.
 
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The universe is infinite, therefore there’s a version of me out there amongst the stars currently having Angelina Jolie hum her favourite tune on his bollocks.
 
ighty seven said:
...just spontaneously burst into existence (Big Bang style, or whatever)?

..or that it was willed into existence?

and if you believe it was willed into existence does that mean you believe in God?

I mean, do whole universes just pop into existence for no reason?
Click to expand...
I don’t really know!
 
ighty seven said:
...just spontaneously burst into existence (Big Bang style, or whatever)?

..or that it was willed into existence?

and if you believe it was willed into existence does that mean you believe in God?

I mean, do whole universes just pop into existence for no reason?
Click to expand...

Who willed god into existence ?

Do you believe god just popped into existence for no reason ?
 
Likely none of us will ever be able to figure out where it all started.
We get told of a big bang. Something from nothing and people go along with it being the best explanation. It's not any real explanation that makes any rational sense to any layperson.
But this is just it.
This is why theoretical scientists are genius...because they are not layperson's. They just know and we should listen and accept.
We get told matter/particles just condensed and then exploded into being. For something to condense it has to have a pressure applied, not a nothing.

Anyone can go with any story they feel best fits for them and it will be no more incorrect than the stories we are coaxed into accepting, such as a big bang and what not.


People will argue for the big bang and then totally dismiss religious belief's of people....yet, what's the difference?
Both are set on a faith/adherence mindset to a schooling into that thought process.

A person can postulate that we came from the skin of a large banana that rotted in a forest and we are in a mass bubble laid on the swamp of a jungle that has never been trod on by anything capable of destroying the bacteria within it.
Of course, this sounds preposterous and all the rest of it. Why? Because the person said it and for no particular reason than, postulation.

However, if you mention the big bang, people listen. People are fascinated. Why?
Because it's told by the best story tellers and passed on to become a religion to many, even if they have no clue what any of it actually means. The story is a best seller and so be it.

A person can kneel at their bed and pray to a teddy bear and each night ask that teddy bear to keep their family safe...etc.
Their wishes will be largely granted, in their mind, until something happens that goes against their prayers. Then they have to decide the odds.

A person can also kneel at their bed and pray to an invisible god and each night ask that god to keep their family safe....etc.
Their wishes will be largely granted until something happens that goes against their prayers. And then they have to decide the odds. God only takes the best. God must've wanted your family member/best friend for a good reason.


In both bold instances the person would be regarded as a bit of a fruit loop or some fantasy merchant that is just uneducated....but yet, the other two scenarios that have equally no provable reality...at all, are deemed logical and almost accepted, en masse.


Life runs on all kinds of belief/acceptable systems for different people and different sections of people.
Unless something becomes a nailed on provable fact, it can be questioned and should be questioned, without ridicule, no matter what is postulated around whatever stories are told.

The big bang is a good story. It may be all that it is in its entirety, as a fiction. It may have some truths within that story but those truth's may never be known...ever.
And this is why it will/may remain a theory. It's a postulation based on a storytelling jigsaw puzzle that has had many a shuffle and many hands on each piece that just don't seem to fit in a way as to make a picture that actually shows anything real, unless those pieces are hammered in to fit, even though the massive gaps make it look out of place...because those gaps can be filled and touched up to make the picture look believable if you're stood back behind the security fence.


If you get my meaning.
 
To say the universe popped into existence from nothing is misunderstanding the Big Bang theory. We have a pretty good idea that the universe came into being from the Big Bang theory and started expanding. Scientists freely admit we don’t know what happened before that but don’t say that there was nothing.
 
How can there be nowt then something?
There must have been something there to start with but where did the something come from?
There must nivver have ever been nowt.
 
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