do you believe the universe...

[Fcomp]

Try and imagine a four, five or six dimensional object. Tell me what it looks like.

A 4 dimensional cube is called a tesseract. It can be imagined, understood and modelled.
There are 2D animations online of the 3D representation of moving through the 4 dimensions of a tesseract.

More generally, you can extend the number of dimensions as far as you want. They're called hypercubes.

 

[Edinburgh Black Cat]

Dinnar but I saw a gif the other day that reckons in a couple of billion years time, our universe is gonna collide with Andromeda. Looks like shit will hit the fan when that happens like.

Any word on whether we'll be out of League 1 by then?

 

[Kent_Mackem]

Any word on whether we'll be out of League 1 by then?

I’d say it is unlikely we will get promoted.

 

[Wrenthorpe Mackem]

Why is is difficult to believe there was the nothing? What’s that stuff between the Earth and the moon - oh, nothing. 99% of the current universe is nothing.

It's quantum fluctuatons. Not nothing. Also dark matter and dark energy.

The explanation of arriving at the distribution of species (including most of the species that have ever existed that are now extinct) from the most simple form of life is well understood. It wasn't chance selection it was chance mutation. The selection was not chance.

The bit we don't yet know is how life first started. We may never know. Of course a god (take your pick which one) may have started it, but as I wrote earlier that makes the explanation for "who created the god?" question even more difficult than the "how did life start?" question. We should start with the simpler explanations first, no matter how difficult they may be currently.

A belief in god is a childish approach.

The problem with eternity is defining how something began. If the universe is eternal i.e. existed before the big bang was it always there?

 

[Scimmy]

There is a lot of intellectual arrogance gets spouted on these threads. We have barely scratched the surface of the universe.

For example, it’s estimated there are roughly 100 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy. We float around one of them. To put that into perspective, if you just counted each of them a second at a time, it would take 10,000 years. Multiply that by, say, 50 billion other galaxies estimated to exist.

Trying to explain this initial singularity has been a critical problem for some of the greatest minds to have lived. Completely ruling out the existence of something/someone more intelligent involved in the process. I completely understand why agnosticism exists, but staunch atheism I don’t get.

I cannot quote examples but I saw a "where does the universe come from" type documentary years ago in which one ofthe contributors (who had a planet-sized intellect) stated that while wrestling with the question he had found religion as a creator seemed the only imaginable answer.

 

[cornish mackem]

...just spontaneously burst into existence (Big Bang style, or whatever)?

..or that it was willed into existence?

and if you believe it was willed into existence does that mean you believe in God?

I mean, do whole universes just pop into existence for no reason?

If it popped big style then what was there before?

Why is is difficult to believe there was the nothing? What’s that stuff between the Earth and the moon - oh, nothing. 99% of the current universe is nothing.

To get something then you must have had something else before?

 

[The King of Um]

It is not nothing though. There are a small amount of particles, but there is also light, radiation and distance. We can (not personally) travel that distance in a finite amount of time and once that moment is passed it can not be recreated. The idea of before the big bang was that there was no particles, light, radiation, time or distance. You could not travel through that nothing, because there was nothing to travel through.

That's the bit that really makes my brain hurt trying to think about it.

That outside the singularity there was nothing, not even nothing - there was no outside of the singularity.

Why is is difficult to believe there was the nothing? What’s that stuff between the Earth and the moon - oh, nothing. 99% of the current universe is nothing.

It's space though. Time exists in space. Things exist in it like stars and planets and comets and dust. Cosmic rays travel through it. We can travel through it (and do). It's just an airless very cold something. Space itself exists. That's very different from the concept of what existed prior to the big bang - it's not that the singularity existed in space, it's that space didn't exist outside of it. I think. My head hurts now.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

I cannot quote examples but I saw a "where does the universe come from" type documentary years ago in which one ofthe contributors (who had a planet-sized intellect) stated that while wrestling with the question he had found religion as a creator seemed the only imaginable answer.

It’s a “too goo to be true” answer though.

Like a magic wand.

That person, whoever it was and no matter how big his/her brain was, would struggle even more to answer “where did the creator come from?” and even worse... this time there is no magic wand lifeline.

Presumably the second question was answered with “the creator was always there” which kind of makes the original question about the origin of the universe pointless. Just say that was always there too then.

 

[Keb]

When you get your head round how it came into existence, have a look at how it will end.

 

[Frijj]

A 4 dimensional cube is called a tesseract. It can be imagined, understood and modelled.
There are 2D animations online of the 3D representation of moving through the 4 dimensions of a tesseract.

More generally, you can extend the number of dimensions as far as you want. They're called hypercubes.

But perceived only in 3 dimensions, no? Just as the shadow of a cube is a 2d representation of a 3d object, a shadow of a tesseract is a 3d representation of a 4d object, but we can't perceive that fourth dimension

 

[DaveH]

It’s a “too goo to be true” answer though.

Like a magic wand.

That person, whoever it was and no matter how big his/her brain was, would struggle even more to answer “where did the creator come from?” and even worse... this time there is no magic wand lifeline.

Presumably the second question was answered with “the creator was always there” which kind of makes the original question about the origin of the universe pointless. Just say that was always there too then.

That is where is starts to break down

"The Universe must have come from somewhere, it can't have come from nothing without a god". Ok, even going back to the big bang, as we can't explain what started the big bang I think we have to admit it there is the possibility of a god or something did it deliberately. It feels unlikely and many of the things we put down to god 200 years ago now have a likely scientific explanation. But we have little evidence of anything so give them that one.

Or, "The universe can't have just always have been there, it must have started from somewhere"

Ok so god then, where did god come from? Erm, erm, always been there.

As far back as you take the thought, there was either the big bang and it just happened or that energy has always been there as a singularity, or there was a god*, but then you have moved the problem back a step and the exact same questions and reasoning still apply.

It always gets back to two things, either always was or that had to come from somewhere. Add as many levels as you can and you are back at the same point.

*other theories are available, such as a multiverse.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

That is where is starts to break down

"The Universe must have come from somewhere, it can't have come from nothing without a god". Ok, even going back to the big bang, as we can't explain what started the big bang I think we have to admit it there is the possibility of a god or something did it deliberately. It feels unlikely and many of the things we put down to god 200 years ago now have a likely scientific explanation. But we have little evidence of anything so give them that one.

Or, "The universe can't have just always have been there, it must have started from somewhere"

Ok so god then, where did god come from? Erm, erm, always been there.

As far back as you take the thought, there was either the big bang and it just happened or that energy has always been there as a singularity, or there was a god*, but then you have moved the problem back a step and the exact same questions and reasoning still apply.

It always gets back to two things, either always was or that had to come from somewhere. Add as many levels as you can and you are back at the same point.

*other theories are available, such as a multiverse.

There is an important difference though. You’re not asking the same question about where did god and where did the universe come from.

One is more complicated and therefore even less likely than the other. The “where did god come from?” is therefore more difficult to answer..... which is why it never gets answered.

The “god did it - sniff” response is a cop-out.

 

[Johnap]

I watch the series "How the Universe Works." All the clever people on there don't have a clue.

I think God came from Whiteleas Social Club.

 

[Fcomp]

but we can't perceive that fourth dimension

perceive
"become aware or conscious of (something); come to realize or understand."

If a 4D cube was rotating in front of you then you would see what looks like a 3D object behaving in a way which no 3D object can.
If you understand what's happening then you'd then perceive it as a 4D object.
You don't need to be in the 4th dimension to understand the 4th dimension.

 

[Prefab]

Try reading Lawrence Krauss' - A universe from nothing.

He conceptualizes it quite well for the layman.

 

[ighty seven]

Dinnar but I saw a gif the other day that reckons in a couple of billion years time, our universe is gonna collide with Andromeda. Looks like shit will hit the fan when that happens like.

just in time for us getting back to the Prem.. typical.

 

[joemcdokes]

I really can’t open my mind that far.

I try to sometimes but the porn always becomes a distraction.

 

[Frijj]

perceive
"become aware or conscious of (something); come to realize or understand."

If a 4D cube was rotating in front of you then you would see what looks like a 3D object behaving in a way which no 3D object can.
If you understand what's happening then you'd then perceive it as a 4D object.
You don't need to be in the 4th dimension to understand the 4th dimension.

Can you see a physical fourth dimension? If you can then I’ll have what you’re drinking this evening

 

[Kent_Mackem]

Can you see a physical fourth dimension? If you can then I’ll have what you’re drinking this evening

When plotting where things are then time can be used as a fourth dimension, but we don’t visualise it in quite the same way as the coordinate vectors.

 

[beverly macca]

I get to and understand the universe. But then what’s the universe inside of. That’s where it hurts my head.