do you believe the universe...



PinzaC55 said:
That's the best way to go. You can either believe the big bang theory which requires no magic, or believe that a magic man in the sky dreamt up by Bronze Age nomads did it.
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No, I don't think God would be a magic man in the sky, I think it'd be something incomprehensible. Not a guy with white hair and beard living on a cloud.
 
I don't believe in God. Or any God humans have created anyway.

But come on, there are what several billion species on this planet? Trillions of trillions of actual single life forms, And I'm meant to believe that out of all the animals I could be, I'm born a human, out of all the spunks, I'm the one that reached the egg. f***ing mental when you really think about, and fucks your head. Its no wonder we believe in gods.
Nukehasslefan said:
Likely none of us will ever be able to figure out where it all started.
We get told of a big bang. Something from nothing and people go along with it being the best explanation. It's not any real explanation that makes any rational sense to any layperson.
But this is just it.
This is why theoretical scientists are genius...because they are not layperson's. They just know and we should listen and accept.
We get told matter/particles just condensed and then exploded into being. For something to condense it has to have a pressure applied, not a nothing.

Anyone can go with any story they feel best fits for them and it will be no more incorrect than the stories we are coaxed into accepting, such as a big bang and what not.


People will argue for the big bang and then totally dismiss religious belief's of people....yet, what's the difference?
Both are set on a faith/adherence mindset to a schooling into that thought process.

A person can postulate that we came from the skin of a large banana that rotted in a forest and we are in a mass bubble laid on the swamp of a jungle that has never been trod on by anything capable of destroying the bacteria within it.
Of course, this sounds preposterous and all the rest of it. Why? Because the person said it and for no particular reason than, postulation.

However, if you mention the big bang, people listen. People are fascinated. Why?
Because it's told by the best story tellers and passed on to become a religion to many, even if they have no clue what any of it actually means. The story is a best seller and so be it.

A person can kneel at their bed and pray to a teddy bear and each night ask that teddy bear to keep their family safe...etc.
Their wishes will be largely granted, in their mind, until something happens that goes against their prayers. Then they have to decide the odds.

A person can also kneel at their bed and pray to an invisible god and each night ask that god to keep their family safe....etc.
Their wishes will be largely granted until something happens that goes against their prayers. And then they have to decide the odds. God only takes the best. God must've wanted your family member/best friend for a good reason.


In both bold instances the person would be regarded as a bit of a fruit loop or some fantasy merchant that is just uneducated....but yet, the other two scenarios that have equally no provable reality...at all, are deemed logical and almost accepted, en masse.


Life runs on all kinds of belief/acceptable systems for different people and different sections of people.
Unless something becomes a nailed on provable fact, it can be questioned and should be questioned, without ridicule, no matter what is postulated around whatever stories are told.

The big bang is a good story. It may be all that it is in its entirety, as a fiction. It may have some truths within that story but those truth's may never be known...ever.
And this is why it will/may remain a theory. It's a postulation based on a storytelling jigsaw puzzle that has had many a shuffle and many hands on each piece that just don't seem to fit in a way as to make a picture that actually shows anything real, unless those pieces are hammered in to fit, even though the massive gaps make it look out of place...because those gaps can be filled and touched up to make the picture look believable if you're stood back behind the security fence.


If you get my meaning.
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Mate, with all due respect. Will you just fuck off.
 
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babyimreadytoblow said:
I don't believe in God. Or any God humans have created anyway.

But come on, there are what several billion species on this planet? Trillions of trillions of actual single life forms, And I'm meant to believe that out of all the animals I could be, I'm born a human, out of all the spunks, I'm the one that reached the egg. f***ing mental when you really think about, and fucks your head. Its no wonder we believe in gods.



Mate, with all due respect. Will you just fuck off.
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You do know there's an ignore button....right? With all due respect.
No need to reply, I'd advise you to just do it.
 
macum1920 said:
Wouldn’t call meself a deeply religious person but thought about it year’s ago, there must be something spiritual as the science can’t explain it (possibly I’m to thick to understand), if the solar system
‘Exploded’ into life, what’s was there before and what’s on the outside of where it ends? Heard it’s never ending but that makes no sense, not sure what’s harder to get, the universe and all or Safc’s football!!
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In that case who created the spiritual being? Or did they suddenly explode into life?
 
ighty seven said:
No, I don't think God would be a magic man in the sky, I think it'd be something incomprehensible. Not a guy with white hair and beard living on a cloud.
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Nor me. In fact it is just a label to facilitate discussion.

As the entire universe is a single quantum field throughout all time, then in each moment universal wave function collapse occurs and the infinite potentialities are left with just one that we call reality. Therefore another state must be observing the universe internally meaning the universe is inherently cognitive. As we observe this wave function collapse in every moment of our lives then we must be a part of that inherent cognitive power of the universe.
 
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In my uninformed opinion, the universe is unlikely to be all there is.

If the universe is ever expanding it therefore must have an edge.

What is on the otherside of that edge? Is it contracting at the same rate?

If the universe is static, imagine a tin roof on it and walls all around it, what's on the other side of them?
 
Brian Griffin said:
In my uninformed opinion, the universe is unlikely to be all there is.

If the universe is ever expanding it therefore must have an edge.

What is on the otherside of that edge? Is it contracting at the same rate?

If the universe is static, imagine a tin roof on it and walls all around it, what's on the other side of them?
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I think the general response is that the universe is expanding into nothing where there is no time and no space. In other words the space-time continuum is expanding into nothing. The key point being that it is space itself that is expanding rather than material as in an explosion.

However, this does raise some issues such as it accepts that there is something outside of reality that is necessary for reality so reality can not be self contained. The other issue is that space is not static but elastic and the only evidence is the red-shift in light from distant galaxies.

The alternative is that space is not elastic but fixed and finite but that rather than space expanding, matter itself is undergoing a condensation or conspansion the opposite of expansion. As an observer, how could we tell the difference?

If matter is undergoing conspansion then this could indicate that the universe is recursive and in each moment that there is universal wave function collapse of the quantum field the emergent reality is contained within the previous image of the universe. This is classed as the growing block concept of time.

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Brian Griffin said:
In my uninformed opinion, the universe is unlikely to be all there is.

If the universe is ever expanding it therefore must have an edge.

What is on the otherside of that edge? Is it contracting at the same rate?

If the universe is static, imagine a tin roof on it and walls all around it, what's on the other side of them?
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It's expanding, but it's not expanding into anything.
 
dangermows said:
It's expanding, but it's not expanding into anything.
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So reality is dependent on something outside reality?

Therefore reality is not self-contained?

Which of course could also mean by the same logic that an external God, outside of reality, was possible.
PS
Not that I think an external God, outside of reality is possible.
 
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ighty seven said:
No, I don't think God would be a magic man in the sky, I think it'd be something incomprehensible. Not a guy with white hair and beard living on a cloud.
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In that case you can throw out everything in the bible which has god as a being with the same emotions as a human and who from time to time popped down to the Earth and walked around, and who had a son.
So your two options for the Universe are
1) What we currently call the Universe came into existence by a process I don't understand.
Or
2) The Universe was created from nothing by "something incomprehensible" which I therefore can't understand.

In both cases you don't get an answer but 2) adds one more thing you don't or can't understand.
1) May be answered one day, 2) can never be answered.
 
The universe is not expanding into anything.
There isn't anything outside the universe.
The universe contains all that there is.

But, as it ages, it slows down.
It just takes longer to get between places and that can appear as expansion.

When I was a youth, I could run from Ryhope to Redhouse in about 50 minutes.
In middle age, I'd slowed down and it took me an hour.
In old age it takes me 90 minutes to jog it.
In 10 years time, when I can't run at all, it'll take me 2 hours to walk it.

So the apparent "distance" from Ryhope to Redhouse has increased over time from 50 minutes to 2 hours.
But Sunderland hasn't expanded into what was beyond Sunderland. Ryhope and Redhouse are in the same place.
It just takes me longer to get from one place to another and that can have the appearance of expansion.

In the same way, the universe isn't expanding into anything, it just takes longer to get about as time passes.
 
dangermows said:
Yup. It's all up for grabs (and me neither).
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So either reality (the universe) is expanding into Absolute Nothing or the universe is recursive and matter is undergoing conspansion.

When considering the moment of the "Big Bang" it is not logical that prior there was Absolute Nothing as such Absolute Nothing would have Absolutely No Potentialities and could not change. The only logical explanation is that was Nothing with Infinite Potentialities such as with a quantum field.

Therefore is it logical to assume that the same Absolute Nothing that cannot exist is the same Absolute Nothing that the universe is expanding into?

The logic of the current model breaks down.
jackynutmeg said:
So did God create The Earth, the Solar System, our Galaxy or the universe?
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The universe self-actualised and then continued through time as a result of continuing wave function collapse into the reality we experience. This is the Growing Block Theory of Time.
 
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