10 teenagers found guilty of murder in Houghton case

AndrewP

Striker
This.

On that note I'll be surprised if they have any luck going down that route-

"It is not possible to appeal against a conviction in the Crown Court simply because you are unhappy with the verdict (even if you know that the verdict is wrong); instead, you need to show that something has gone seriously wrong with the trial process itself such that the guilty verdict should be considered to be unsafe."

Defence-barrister.co.uk
Yeah, you can't appeal because you don't like the law or you think the jury was wrong.
 


Kent_Mackem

Striker
The terror & beating that they subjected poor Jack to before they killed him was pure evil & inhuman. Each one of them who was involved in hunting the lad down & and robbing him of his entire life needs to be removed from society for a very long time.

The concept of joint enterpries is a well thought out legal principle and was designed to help attribute the guilt in cases precisely such as Jacks. Each one found guilty of Jacks murder has therefore been found guilty according to how the law is intended to work . It's neither a mistake or the result of any unjustice.
Good post.
 

Kevsgreat

Striker
Proper social media justice warrior. Doesn't know wtf she's talking about but continues to spout it anyway, while a certain section laps it up.

Nothing wrong with the convictions. I suppose some of them will be saying they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, or "only" chased him, or "only" hit him. They were all part of what happened to the poor kid and maybe if they knew they could be sent to prison for something much more serious than their individual action warrants they'd have not been involved at all.
 
I don’t disagree there are some fantastic kids about, volunteer with some of them in the colefields area. Also if you are from a under funded, neglected area that behaviour like these 10 kids have shown isn’t addressed with initiatives or these families supported. But everyone has a choice when they wake up on a morning whether they are going to be twat or not, regardless where they are, their wealth, what’s available.
These kids probably wake up everyday seeing their parents or their friends parents, sitting round doing nowt, being a dosser, causing trouble, breaking the law, taking slabs of fosters to a sentencing and think this is acceptable behaviour, aspire to it. A kid to break that cycle needs to want to be more than what they are used to.
Maybe I’m contradicting myself and rambling but sort of know what I was trying to say

I agree with what you’re saying generally; agency can’t be removed altogether and there are some who will be wrong uns regardless of interventions from well meaning initiatives and people.

But I think that bit in bold is really important. That’s where a helping hand from the state can make huge differences. If parents and families can’t or don’t know how to set a good example with words or deeds then a third party needs to step in and break the cycle to give some kids a chance (Sure Start for example didn’t just help kids it helped parents, some of who were kids themselves, learn to be parents). From reading the sentencing notes on the characters involved here it sounds like some are typically easy led kids that have had no moral grounding. And seeing their parents / families behave outside of court the way they did suggests that moral grounding was never coming from home.

I hope this doesn’t come across as excuse making for any of the parties involved here. I wholeheartedly agree with the sentences passed by the judge. Each of them played their part in the death of an innocent person. But I genuinely believe that much more can be done by government (this requires funding and intent) to reduce and prevent this type of horrific incident becoming more prevalent.
I don't see how stabbing someone with a knife that size can be manslaughter.

Absolutely no-one in this country needs a knife like that for any purpose. There may be a tiny percentage of professions where one is required but aside from that there is no good reason to own one.
 
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SR7

Midfield
I'll tell you what doesn't help.
When kids are at school who are the bad kids.... the real bad kids, who get rewarded for not being as bad that week and the good kids get nothing. What lesson is that?

I'm sure many will agree with me when I say I've known many bad kids get taken to events and given sweets and toys in order to make life easier for the school system.

My son used to come home baffled.
He'd say " dad, it seems it's better to be bad because you get all sorts."

I used to say, it seems that way son but just remember where they will be in later years while you're getting on with life.

The thing is, what message does this send out?

That's pointless because it'll just create more than it solves.
The best way is to make the prisoners fully graft to pay for their own stay.
We had that in Easington comp, the little cünts that were wicked all the time would be rewarded with rave records or vouchers if they weren’t as bad for a week. The kids that really knuckled down and were angels, it was expected of them and they were never rewarded with fuck all. Used to piss me off summit rotten.
 

Visiting owl

Central Defender
You despair at the behaviour of some people today.
Nee class, nee standards, nee self awareness.
You wonder at what we’re producing in this country, it’s frightening really.


It's why I moved abroad.

I really love the UK and spend lots of time there but I am just tired of seeing and having to be around so much yobbish behaviour, even more frustrating is the fact if you even challenge one of these reprobates you would most likely get a knife in your belly.

Never once, and I mean never, have I experienced any kind of violence or yobbish behaviour that has made me feel uneasy in 16 years of part living in Bulgaria.

I remember about 5 years ago the police came to my neighbours house to have a chat because his teenage daughter had got into a spat at her school. The shame of the police coming to his house still haunts him. Be a badge of honour in some parts of the UK.
 

Violet Club

Subs Bench
It's why I moved abroad.

I really love the UK and spend lots of time there but I am just tired of seeing and having to be around so much yobbish behaviour, even more frustrating is the fact if you even challenge one of these reprobates you would most likely get a knife in your belly.

Never once, and I mean never, have I experienced any kind of violence or yobbish behaviour that has made me feel uneasy in 16 years of part living in Bulgaria.

I remember about 5 years ago the police came to my neighbours house to have a chat because his teenage daughter had got into a spat at her school. The shame of the police coming to his house still haunts him. Be a badge of honour in some parts of the UK.
Seems we have been trying for decades to teach and encourage but the scum keep breeding more scum. Hate sounding like some old toff, but I really think it’s time to try the stick rather than the carrot. More prisons, harsher conditions and longer sentences. Would likely take a generation before these thick heeds to realise that they can’t keep behaving the way they do but the cycle has to be broken at some point. Crime and violence should not pay.
 
We had that in Easington comp, the little cünts that were wicked all the time would be rewarded with rave records or vouchers if they weren’t as bad for a week. The kids that really knuckled down and were angels, it was expected of them and they were never rewarded with fuck all. Used to piss me off summit rotten.
It’s f***ing barmy that. It’s almost encouraging good kids to act the twat.
 
It’s f***ing barmy that. It’s almost encouraging good kids to act the twat.

The school shouldn’t have left out those who worked hard. That’s just a rubbish behaviour policy. They should have been rewarded.

But incentivising good behaviour is a good way of reducing bad behaviour. A lot of those kids turn out to be success stories later in life having not necessarily been given a good start in life. It’s a canny subject to discuss but probably not the thread for it.
 
The school shouldn’t have left out those who worked hard. That’s just a rubbish behaviour policy. They should have been rewarded.

But incentivising good behaviour is a good way of reducing bad behaviour. A lot of those kids turn out to be success stories later in life having not necessarily been given a good start in life. It’s a canny subject to discuss but probably not the thread for it.

But the school has only finite resources to incentivise good behaviour.

The good kids already have their behaviour and motivated moderated by good parents.

Therefore, with limited resources and no need to reward those who already behave well, it makes sense to reward those who usually behave badly, if they behave well.

Agree with your last sentence though, yes.
 

Silkyces

Midfield
Am i missing something about that video but what has the judge and the police done wrong? What were the aims of the scum/mob shouting abuse? If they were the parents of the pondlife who murdered the poor lad then what a suprise they ended up with a conviction and their lives ruined.
 

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