10 teenagers found guilty of murder in Houghton case



bat_finchale

Subs Bench
I don’t want to derail the thread from its main discussion point but when local authorities are under funded by central governments and initiatives that are designed to prevent vulnerable young families from going off the straight and narrow are cut and abandoned it has real life consequences.

But despite that, and whilst it’s understandable you feel how you do, I’m still convinced that for every bunch of evil little shits there are also some absolutely fantastic kids who are doing brilliant things either for their communities, friends or families. Often under the radar. They give hope for the future
I don’t disagree there are some fantastic kids about, volunteer with some of them in the colefields area. Also if you are from a under funded, neglected area that behaviour like these 10 kids have shown isn’t addressed with initiatives or these families supported. But everyone has a choice when they wake up on a morning whether they are going to be twat or not, regardless where they are, their wealth, what’s available.
These kids probably wake up everyday seeing their parents or their friends parents, sitting round doing nowt, being a dosser, causing trouble, breaking the law, taking slabs of fosters to a sentencing and think this is acceptable behaviour, aspire to it. A kid to break that cycle needs to want to be more than what they are used to.
Maybe I’m contradicting myself and rambling but sort of know what I was trying to say
 

soapster

Striker
I don’t disagree there are some fantastic kids about, volunteer with some of them in the colefields area. Also if you are from a under funded, neglected area that behaviour like these 10 kids have shown isn’t addressed with initiatives or these families supported. But everyone has a choice when they wake up on a morning whether they are going to be twat or not, regardless where they are, their wealth, what’s available.
These kids probably wake up everyday seeing their parents or their friends parents, sitting round doing nowt, being a dosser, causing trouble, breaking the law, taking slabs of fosters to a sentencing and think this is acceptable behaviour, aspire to it. A kid to break that cycle needs to want to be more than what they are used to.
Maybe I’m contradicting myself and rambling but sort of know what I was trying to say
and the responsibility of parents and family to doing nowt, being a dosser, causing trouble, breaking the law, taking slabs of fosters to a sentencing at court.
at some stage parents have to take responsibility and not blame everybody else. a child will mimic its role model, whether that role model is good or bad.
if a child then mimics bad behaviour when he or she is an adult or growing up then that offspring pays the price.
 

Lord Potts

Striker
The terror & beating that they subjected poor Jack to before they killed him was pure evil & inhuman. Each one of them who was involved in hunting the lad down & and robbing him of his entire life needs to be removed from society for a very long time.

The concept of joint enterpries is a well thought out legal principle and was designed to help attribute the guilt in cases precisely such as Jacks. Each one found guilty of Jacks murder has therefore been found guilty according to how the law is intended to work . It's neither a mistake or the result of any unjustice.
 
The sooner the law is stringent on joint enterprise and the sooner schools and community are made fully aware of the consequences of gang mentality, the sooner young kids will shy away from being part of that following.
Obviously, it won't stop all because some kids' goal in life is to follow their family members into jail and whatnot.

Something has to give, one way or the other because this stuff is getting far too normalised and accepted and generally brushed under the carpet by the government who are tying the hands of the law.
See nine of the little shits have appealed their convictions 😡 surely this can’t be successful.
It's a big risk because their appeal could lead to bigger sentences.
I can't see any appeal getting lowered.
 

UpTheDuff

Central Defender
Surely as a parent you step in and stop your child mixing with scum, take ownership
True. Suggests the parents aren’t ‘decent’ despite what the other poster said.
I don’t disagree there are some fantastic kids about, volunteer with some of them in the colefields area. Also if you are from a under funded, neglected area that behaviour like these 10 kids have shown isn’t addressed with initiatives or these families supported. But everyone has a choice when they wake up on a morning whether they are going to be twat or not, regardless where they are, their wealth, what’s available.
These kids probably wake up everyday seeing their parents or their friends parents, sitting round doing nowt, being a dosser, causing trouble, breaking the law, taking slabs of fosters to a sentencing and think this is acceptable behaviour, aspire to it. A kid to break that cycle needs to want to be more than what they are used to.
Maybe I’m contradicting myself and rambling but sort of know what I was trying to say
They also need to know there is a chance and opportunity to be more than that.
 
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I'll tell you what doesn't help.
When kids are at school who are the bad kids.... the real bad kids, who get rewarded for not being as bad that week and the good kids get nothing. What lesson is that?

I'm sure many will agree with me when I say I've known many bad kids get taken to events and given sweets and toys in order to make life easier for the school system.

My son used to come home baffled.
He'd say " dad, it seems it's better to be bad because you get all sorts."

I used to say, it seems that way son but just remember where they will be in later years while you're getting on with life.

The thing is, what message does this send out?
A new law needs to be passed where the parents have to contribute towards the cost of keeping the little rats in prison.
That's pointless because it'll just create more than it solves.
The best way is to make the prisoners fully graft to pay for their own stay.
 
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bat_finchale

Subs Bench
I'll tell you what doesn't help.
When kids are at school who are the bad kids.... the real bad kids, who get rewarded for not being as bad that week and the good kids get nothing. What lesson is that?

I'm sure many will agree with me when I say I've known many bad kids get taken to events and given sweets and toys in order to make life easier for the school system.

My son used to come home baffled.
He'd say " dad, it seems it's better to be bad because you get all sorts."

I used to say, it seems that way son but just remember where they will be in later years while you're getting on with life.

The thing is, what message does this send out?

That's pointless because it'll just create more than it solves.
The best way is to make the prisoners fully graft to pay for their own stay.
True. Suggests the parents aren’t ‘decent’ despite what the other poster said.

They also need to know there is a chance and opportunity to be more than that.
Personally I feel schools need to teach that lesson more “Put the work in now and you get the rewards later in life” not the odd trip, toy or bag of sweets to keep you quiet or out the way. Hopefully when they mature this makes sense. I certainly try to teach my own kid that. Even if you aren’t the most academic you can leave school with a good attitude and work ethic.
 
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That's if you speak appeal a sentence. They are appealing their convictions.
This.

On that note I'll be surprised if they have any luck going down that route-

"It is not possible to appeal against a conviction in the Crown Court simply because you are unhappy with the verdict (even if you know that the verdict is wrong); instead, you need to show that something has gone seriously wrong with the trial process itself such that the guilty verdict should be considered to be unsafe."

Defence-barrister.co.uk
 

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