12 year old girl murdered in Liverpool City centre



Billericay Dichio said:
Perhaps you should talk to the government - they've had 11 years to do something - of course they're all left wing luvvies.
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I'm not a Tory supporter, don't like them one iota, but labour are even worse in my opinion, we need a new party that is fair but firm, we need 'honest' politicians who are not there to feather their own nests, I realise that it would be easier to herd cats than to find such politicians.
 
Keawyeds said:
On that I'll agree.


Two words.
Social. Media.
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Social media has a lot to answer for, but we still haven’t yet grasped the fact that it’s always been used to manipulate populations under the guise of a jolly friends, and family chat tool. The other control mechanism is to flood poorer areas with cheap drugs, and use those drugs to control the mindset of everyone caught up in them. These kids hanging around with knives have been brought up in those areas, and have little social or moral conscience. We’re living in a 21st century Dickensian Britain, with the speediest communication systems ever invented. Most of the wealth hoarded by the few, and those at the very bottom fighting amongst themselves for the scraps. The rest of us are wandering around in a confused haze of disapproval.
 
Keawyeds said:
Crime Island, but it'll never happen. I'm actually getting tired of repeating that, despite it being good idea - albeit against the Geneva convention I suspect.
A pointless war would be helpful.

You seem to miss the point that the death sentence doesn't stop these things from happening. It just stops the perpetrator from doing it again.
Even if you bump them off, their cell will be filled soon after by the next pain in society's arse.
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I don't believe all crimes are spur of the moment, loss of reasoning, type crimes, a lot of them are planned and thought out, criminals weigh up the pros and cons, they aren't stupid in a lot of cases, and if they thought 'i commit my crime successfully and get away with it, or I get caught and get 6/7 years in jail' a lot of them will take the chance. Replace that second option to death by any means, and the crime rate would drop dramatically, and I'm not talking about stealing a loaf here, only serious crime such as murder, rape etc...
Keawyeds said:
Does it not bother you that that would make you objectively just as bad as them?
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No, it wouldn't make me as bad as them in my eyes, if I was picking people at random yes, but not if they've proved that they can not abide by society's laws and proved themselves to be evil wicked people.
 
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Purrfect South said:
Social media has a lot to answer for, but we still haven’t yet grasped the fact that it’s always been used to manipulate populations under the guise of a jolly friends, and family chat tool. The other control mechanism is to flood poorer areas with cheap drugs, and use those drugs to control the mindset of everyone caught up in them. These kids hanging around with knives have been brought up in those areas, and have little social or moral conscience. We’re living in a 21st century Dickensian Britain, with the speediest communication systems ever invented. Most of the wealth hoarded by the few, and those at the very bottom fighting amongst themselves for the scraps. The rest of us are wandering around in a confused haze of disapproval.
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Some interesting points.

The whole system is broken and leading to a broken and fractured society, we play the blame game and spend all our time eking out just enough to live, blinding by all the shinny things thrown down our throats and told we are happy as we have more, when in fact we have lost so much.

community spirit seems to be a thing of the past and we now live in the "am all right jack screw you" era.
 
redwhiteandblue said:
I don't believe all crimes are spur of the moment, loss of reasoning, type crimes, a lot of them are planned and thought out, criminals weigh up the pros and cons, they aren't stupid in a lot of cases, and if they thought 'i commit my crime successfully and get away with it, or I get caught and get 6/7 years in jail' a lot of them will take the chance. Replace that second option to death by any means, and the crime rate would drop dramatically, and I'm not talking about stealing a loaf here, only serious crime such as murder, rape etc...
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At no point did I say "all crimes are spur of the moment".
Your second option is clearly bullshit and I point you in the direction of America as proof.

You are suggesting that we as a country take an ethical and moral step back in time. Several steps in fact.
I wasn't alive when the last person was executed in this country. Were you? I'm going to hazard a guess at "no".
redwhiteandblue said:
No, it wouldn't make me as bad as them in my eyes, if I was picking people at random yes, but not if they've proved that they can not abide by society's laws and proved themselves to be evil wicked people.
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So your solution is to seriously disfigure or brutally execute them.
Have you just come back from Saudi Arabia?
 
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redwhiteandblue said:
I don't believe all crimes are spur of the moment, loss of reasoning, type crimes, a lot of them are planned and thought out, criminals weigh up the pros and cons, they aren't stupid in a lot of cases, and if they thought 'i commit my crime successfully and get away with it, or I get caught and get 6/7 years in jail' a lot of them will take the chance. Replace that second option to death by any means, and the crime rate would drop dramatically, and I'm not talking about stealing a loaf here, only serious crime such as murder, rape etc...

No, it wouldn't make me as bad as them in my eyes, if I was picking people at random yes, but not if they've proved that they can not abide by society's laws and proved themselves to be evil wicked people.
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in your view what is the root cause of most crime?
 
CatRyan said:
this was addressed more fully in 1551, filling up prisons is not the solution primarily as it is reactive rather than proactive and America is the proof that it does not work

the death sentence does not work, it is more expensive and morally wrong
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CatRyan said:
this was addressed more fully in 1551, filling up prisons is not the solution primarily as it is reactive rather than proactive and America is the proof that it does not work

the death sentence does not work, it is more expensive and morally wrong
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Without knowing the state America would be in without the death sentence you can't possibly know that, how do you know that without it it could be a whole lot worse?
 
redwhiteandblue said:
Without knowing the state America would be in without the death sentence you can't possibly know that, how do you know that without it it could be a whole lot worse?
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because there are states in America without the death penalty and you can look at the data, and if you had read Utopia, written in 1551 and anything of merit on the subject written since then you would have a better understanding on this

as it is you are having an understandable knee jerk reaction but the legal / justice system and social welfare needs to be run by cooler heads and more intelligent informed minds
 
MonkeyLove said:
I’m sure crimes like this did happen in the 70’s and 80’s but there seems to be a higher quantity of outright kernts in this country now then any time I can remember
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Just more people in general.

I see headlines like this and just feel vaguely sad and shrug because I don't think there's anything I can do and don't really think it's an indictment of the way things are.

Sometimes awful things happen, but they're rarer than what the media makes them seem to be.
 
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chrismisterx said:
in your view what is the root cause of most crime?
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For crimes involving theft I would say greed is the main motive, for other crimes like rape and murder then I would say they have a lack of morals and empathy towards their victims, a psychopath, just generalising there, there are many exceptions, but my guess is that would be the bulk of cases, if you want a more specific answer give me a specific case.
 
CatRyan said:
because there are states in America without the death penalty and you can look at the data, and if you had read Utopia, written in 1551 and anything of merit on the subject written since then you would have a better understanding on this

as it is you are having an understandable knee jerk reaction but the legal / justice system and social welfare needs to be run by cooler heads and more intelligent informed minds
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How do you know that the states without the death sentence are not more lenient? Some judges and jury's would call one incident murder, well homicide, while another might call it manslaughter or even a not guilty verdict, so I don't place too much emphasis on statistics.
 
redwhiteandblue said:
How do you know that the states without the death sentence are not more lenient? Some judges and jury's would call one incident murder, well homicide, while another might call it manslaughter or even a not guilty verdict, so I don't place too much emphasis on statistics.
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So what exactly do you turn to for proof?
 
redwhiteandblue said:
For crimes involving theft I would say greed is the main motive, for other crimes like rape and murder then I would say they have a lack of morals and empathy towards their victims, a psychopath, just generalising there, there are many exceptions, but my guess is that would be the bulk of cases, if you want a more specific answer give me a specific case.
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interesting,

i would go further and say money / greed is the overwhelming reason for crimes, from the lack of money ( poverty ) to greed and wanting what someone else has.

I personally feel if money wasn't a thing, crime would pretty much all but disappear apart from when it concerned, like your rightly pointed out in the case of a psychopath or some other disorders.

now we cant get get rid of money ( yet ) so we should focus on the factors we can change and poverty has a massive effect on crime, so solve poverty and surely we will reduce one of the root courses of crime.

don't you agree that prevention is the best and most cost efficient way to deal with crime?
 
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You don't need to bring the death penalty back ffs. A re-jig of the criminal justice system is long overdue though.

5 years sentences for heinous crimes like murder, rape, paedophilia just isn't acceptable, especially when they often do less.

Jail's being overflooded isn't an excuse for this when half the inmates are in for absolutely petty crimes.

We live in a country where drugs still carry a criminal sentence when half the world has moved past that and understands the war on drugs was a load of bollocks.

People going to jail for drunk and disorderly, petty theft etc is a waste of space. Keep jail for the people who need to be kept of the streets and bring in a different system for petty crimes where there is a chance of those people being reformed.

Knife crime or weaponed crime, violent assaults should be met with a long sentence in jail.
 
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