12 year old girl murdered in Liverpool City centre

vinegar hill said:
I’ve said it on here many times, there just seems to be an alarming lack of perspective in modern society.
The poor girl appears to have been murdered as a result of an argument.
It seems that couple who were killed in their living room the other day while their kids slept up stairs it’s not confirmed but it could have been as a result of an argument over parking their cars FFS.
As for social media there’s one word commonly used now on that platform totally out of context and that’s the word hater.
It’s crept in the last 20 years or so and is used to describe anyone who disagrees with another person.
When such a strong word is used out of perspective in such a way it tells you everything about modern society.
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Completely agree. No doubt these boys frequented the darkest parts of misogynist red pill social media so when a girl argued back they dished out what they believe to be appropriate to make her subservient.
 


Lumber said:
With a threat like that towards my family I'd be lifed off myself, but the threat would be extinguished
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Some people obviously aren't rock hard like yourself.

Their son was murdered. & the murderer's scumbag dad then went on to threaten their lives. I can totally understand why they wouldn't take things into their own hands.
 
Fred Secrets said:
Some people obviously aren't rock hard like yourself.

Their son was murdered. & the murderer's scumbag dad then went on to threaten their lives. I can totally understand why they wouldn't take things into their own hands.
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I'm no means rock hard Fred
But no one would put the fear of God into me like that and get away with it. Obviously people are different, and losing a son in such a way would haunt every second of their lives. Awful
 
Lumber said:
I'm no means rock hard Fred
But no one would put the fear of God into me like that and get away with it. Obviously people are different, and losing a son in such a way would haunt every second of their lives. Awful
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Yeah, fair enough. I just don't think anyone would know for certain how they would deal with that situation until it actually happens them. It's easy to say "Oh, I'd do this & then I'd do that", but the reality is, you just don't know.
 
Its an educational problem IMO, How you solve that however i have no idea. Theres so many great people in the world but also so many total arseholes which will just feed down through generations and generations of either family or friendship groups.
 
redwhiteandblue said:
lives of the girl, her family and friends yes, not the lives of the four lads though, they'll have a whale of a time in their young offenders home, canoeing, mountain biking, rock climbing etc, taught by some left wing luvvie, who knows deep down they're all good lads, just a bit misguided, then let out by the time they're 18, they'll all look back and laugh about it one day, seriously, they will, and there lies the problem with our society! if she has been fatally stabbed and the one that struck that blow can clearly be identified by cctv, then he should be killed, this would send out the right message that this behaviour will not be tolerated, instead of the message that we currently send out, which is that it will. sad times.
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I feel the same way about it as you do, after reading the story I could easily feel like they should be killed. But you shouldn't actually implement it as a policy, the death penalty is immoral enough without accounting for the fact that these scumbags are teenagers.
CatRyan said:
It is almost as much a tragedy for this child as the girl murdered. The parents should be held accountable.
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Nah that's too far, there's only one victim here. Even at 14 you should know not to stab someone, even if your parents are the worst people on the planet.
 
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chrismisterx said:
I just cant get my head around it.

what has happened to make people so angry all the time, its just getting worse, its like people have had an empathy transplant where these idiots just don't have any for their fellow human beings.
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A lot of scratters just think they are rock hard these days. Mindset of “No one messes with me. I’m a gangster. I’m ready to flip. i’m from the streets & don’t give a f••• i’ve got nothing to lose, Don’t fuck about with me i’ll do what I want no one tells me what to do”.

I’m really not sure where it’s come from tbh. Society in this country is breaking down.
 
Chatty83 said:
Petty criminals who don't reform. Have a strike rule for them.

I'd also make prisons much more shitter to live in. Lock up most of the time, only allowed educational books, make it miserable as possible so it's not treat like a holiday camp.
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There has to be a substantial element of punishment in prison but treating people like scum ( even when they are behaving like scum) doesn’t reform criminals, it solidifies their status and perpetuates the cycle. We can’t bemoan the lack of empathy and perspective in society and then go medieval vengeance as a response. Truth be told the long term answer is largely early intervention, investment in turning lives around with education and opportunities before tragedies like this happen rather than draconian punishment.
That said, despite the relative youth of these perpetrators they should be facing a long time in jail/ youth detention with the possibility of that meaning a life term.
 
Social media and porn are going to continue to make problems for society, instant gratification or we get angry, everyone aye with us or we get angry etc, having said that kids are much more polite than when I was growing up, we just didn't routinely Stab anyone.
 
Losing a child to illness or an accident is tragic, I can't think of any words to accurately describe losing a child to a group of slightly older children.
Super Mario said:
Social media and porn are going to continue to make problems for society, instant gratification or we get angry, everyone aye with us or we get angry etc, having said that kids are much more polite than when I was growing up, we just didn't routinely Stab anyone.
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I agree. I can't help but think this 'woke nonsense' nonsense will have an impact too; where kindness and empathy is ridiculed as some kind of weakness by a growing section of society.
 
Scorer said:
There has to be a substantial element of punishment in prison but treating people like scum ( even when they are behaving like scum) doesn’t reform criminals, it solidifies their status and perpetuates the cycle. We can’t bemoan the lack of empathy and perspective in society and then go medieval vengeance as a response. Truth be told the long term answer is largely early intervention, investment in turning lives around with education and opportunities before tragedies like this happen rather than draconian punishment.
That said, despite the relative youth of these perpetrators they should be facing a long time in jail/ youth detention with the possibility of that meaning a life term.
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These mostly wouldn't be reformable tbf. As I said, the laws need changing so theirs a system for highly dangerous criminals who are a danger to the public and a separate system for those who can be reformed.

Murderers, rapists, paedophiles, extremely violent criminals for the most part aren't going to reform.

People who have 194 convictions aren't going to reform.
 
Chatty83 said:
These mostly wouldn't be reformable tbf. As I said, the laws need changing so theirs a system for highly dangerous criminals who are a danger to the public and a separate system for those who can be reformed.

Murderers, rapists, paedophiles, extremely violent criminals for the most part aren't going to reform.

People who have 194 convictions aren't going to reform.
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Quite probably true, hence my focus on early intervention. Most violent criminals don’t come from well educated affluent backgrounds. For the category you describe it is, sadly for all involved, too late for many although that shouldn’t prevent efforts being made to support reform.
 
Social media, drill music, pornography, disrespect for elders, casualisation of violence in media available to those too young (Squid Game for example).......are all partly to blame imo
 
Chatty83 said:
Murderers, rapists, paedophiles, extremely violent criminals for the most part aren't going to reform.
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Do you have the psychological studies that proves that point?

Who would decide who can or cant be reformed, when would it be decided, would there be a right of appeal for the person who was told you cant be reformed?

We have to be better than that or what's the point, we have to give each and every person who is in prison the benefit of the doubt that one day they maybe can be reformed, not saying all can, but we have to try, if we don't we will create a place when "soft criminals" would just become hardened, unless your going to have two types of prisons? some maybe are mentality ill and can never be released, but if the person in prison has nothing to work towards, what's the point?

If you have a prison where the inmates are told your beyond reform and that they are never getting out, I sure as hell wouldn't want to work there, these people would have nothing to lose, it would be one of the most dangerous places full stop, look at the death row sections of prisons to get an idea.

In Norway IIRC the max prison sentence is 25 years, but they have a system in place were the inmates can work towards reform, moving through the system from high security prisons to when felt reformed an island where their are trusted to live in small houses with knifes in the kitchen and pretty much a normal life, only after a time there do these hardened inmates get the chance of release if the powers that be feel they are reformed. It seems since the inmates are treat with humanity there is less problems in prison for the staff too*

* going by a documentary and a little bit i read online, I am no expert on the subject.

Now the USA system of treating everyone like scum and packing them in has made them some of the hardest prisons in the world, but its not solving the problems, just packing it away out of sight.
 

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