New Zealand PM's Response to Johnson's Covid Actions



tunstallhill said:
188 million confirmed cases world wide, probably much more than that in reality. and not one variant that evades the vaccine.

uk has been slowly but surely opening up over the past 3 months, cases are rising as was predicted by every single person, but the NHS is coping.

if not now, then when? genuine question. as we arent going to start lifting restrictions just as the schools go back and the cold weather starts back up.

so if not now, then next spring? is that what the suggestion is?
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Just bumping the bit in red as all the self acclaimed scientists on here are bouncing it right now. Just curious as it really feels like some people want us to be locked down forever.
 
DoctorMick said:
That’s how I thought it worked which makes sense, a mutation could make the new variant either more or less resistant to the vaccine. Some people seem to be suggesting the virus can learn to evade the vaccines which doesn’t seem possible to me.
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You're correct, they cannot evade a vaccine because that would be akin to snubbing your best mate. Love and hate exist without hormones, it is us that abuse this simple sum.
 
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Dobblemackem said:
One of the worst? There has never, ever been a poster has bad as him. He’s utterly pathetic, in all the time he’s posted on here, nothing has had any value. He’s a sad pathetic bloke, with no affinity to Sunderland, and absolutely no reason to post on here, other than to spread negativity, try to wind people up, and run to the mods to get people warnings.

Most pathetic worthless poster to ever grace the board.
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I agree. People need to stop reacting to him, he gets off on it and that's his only purpose for posting on here.
 
Dobblemackem said:
One of the worst? There has never, ever been a poster has bad as him. He’s utterly pathetic, in all the time he’s posted on here, nothing has had any value. He’s a sad pathetic bloke, with no affinity to Sunderland, and absolutely no reason to post on here, other than to spread negativity, try to wind people up, and run to the mods to get people warnings.

Most pathetic worthless poster to ever grace the board.
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It's hard to read character through a veil of fear, and many doom mongers are driven by this overload mindset.
 
chrismisterx said:
One point of note, these vaccines haven't even passed the trials yet, lets hope it is 100% safe for all long term, would be just our luck to mess up and have another problem to deal with, like we have in the past with a "safe and well used drug" thalidomide, until we found in some cases the drug wasn't safe at all.
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The vaccines have been through phase III studies which is the last part before a drug is in widespread use. It is currently in phase IV which is long term surveillance in widespread use.

Which things do they have to pass exactly?
 
pavarotti1980 said:
The vaccines have been through phase III studies which is the last part before a drug is in widespread use. It is currently in phase IV which is long term surveillance in widespread use.

Which things do they have to pass exactly?
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wrong still in phase 3 and waiting for results, if my layman understanding is right :-

A Global Phase III Clinical Trial of Recombinant COVID- 19 Vaccine (Sf9 Cells) - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

I think if I read it right its feb 2022 for the primary data and end of 2022 for study to be finished, no expert but we still have time to wait, reason why new side effects are added to the list, with heart issues being the newest one.
 
chrismisterx said:
wrong still in phase 3 and waiting for results, if my layman understanding is right :-

A Global Phase III Clinical Trial of Recombinant COVID- 19 Vaccine (Sf9 Cells) - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

I think if I read it right its feb 2022 for the primary data and end of 2022 for study to be finished, no expert but we still have time to wait, reason why new side effects are added to the list, with heart issues being the newest one.
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Yes mate you are wrong. They have published phase III results otherwise it would never have obtained emergency approval by MHRA, EMA, FDA etc. subsequent studies are still in early phases (i.e. vaccine mixing, vaccination of children etc) but the main ones are way past phase III published results for safety and efficacy with confirmed dosing
 
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tunstallhill said:
188 million confirmed cases world wide, probably much more than that in reality. and not one variant that evades the vaccine.

uk has been slowly but surely opening up over the past 3 months, cases are rising as was predicted by every single person, but the NHS is coping.

if not now, then when? genuine question. as we arent going to start lifting restrictions just as the schools go back and the cold weather starts back up.

so if not now, then next spring? is that what the suggestion is?
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Jesus do we need to go through this again. There are already variants that evade the vaccine!

Even people who have been double jabbed with Pfizer are 64% protected that means for every 34 in 100 people the delta variant is already evading the vaccine. How else are those people getting it if it not evading??

It’s now just a question of magnitude.
 
pavarotti1980 said:
Yes mate you are wrong. They have published phase III results otherwise it would never have obtained emergency approval by MHRA, EMA, FDA etc
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it got approval before phase 3 trials, its one reason there was concerns as it was granted before these trails where finished, animal trails were completed but not the phase 3 human trails. emergency approval had to be given and i agree with that, phase 3 trails are still ongoing , i think the UK still is awaiting results from a couple of trails i think due to finish soon, autumn I think.

link above shows :-



Actual Study Start Date :June 18, 2021
Estimated Primary Completion Date :February 28, 2022
Estimated Study Completion Date :December 31, 2022


So in my laymans view, these studies are still ongoing worldwide and these vaccines still have to be granted a licence , only have emergency approval, people at very low risk of covid i can understand being worried about the vaccine.
 
chrismisterx said:
it got approval before phase 3 trials, its one reason there was concerns as it was granted before these trails where finished, animal trails were completed but not the phase 3 human trails. emergency approval had to be given and i agree with that, phase 3 trails are still ongoing , i think the UK still is awaiting results from a couple of trails i think due to finish soon, autumn I think.

link above shows :-



Actual Study Start Date :June 18, 2021
Estimated Primary Completion Date :February 28, 2022
Estimated Study Completion Date :December 31, 2022


So in my laymans view, these studies are still ongoing worldwide and these vaccines still have to be granted a licence , only have emergency approval, people at very low risk of covid i can understand being worried about the vaccine.
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Mate it's a vaccine which is not available. Is WestVac an option at the minute?
 
pavarotti1980 said:
Ps that link is for WestVac COVID-19 vaccine. Nothing to do with the current approved ones, and it only actually started last month
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from what understand the pfizer one has to submit further data from the current trail it has under taken, like i said just a layman and understand 100% why people are concerned, new data is gathered all the time and some of the current concerns with pfizer for example I can 100% understand why some are worried.
 
chrismisterx said:
The elephant in the room and what isn't being discussed is the high risk of a more deadly virus will be with us until the west gets its finger out and helps the 3rd world.

Its ok saying we should or should not remove restrictions, but the risk that this virus evolves is going to be with us a long time, so what's the answer?

The vaccine isn't some magic bullet that will fix everything, it just makes the virus easy to deal with and reduces the risk, even if the whole world has the jab there's always the chance it evolves, might be a lower chance, but still a chance all the same.

I read an opinion piece that said vaccines would drive the virus to mutate and we will be left with always having to tweak the jab year on year to stay ahead of it, that we need to learn to live with it now.

in my view the human body is a fantastic thing, we will adapt and learn to live with this, with the help of science.
The black death wiped out massive amounts of people, but some were immune and we over came it, we been around for millions of years and have no doubt we as a race will overcome this challenge.

One point of note, these vaccines haven't even passed the trials yet, lets hope it is 100% safe for all long term, would be just our luck to mess up and have another problem to deal with, like we have in the past with a "safe and well used drug" thalidomide, until we found in some cases the drug wasn't safe at all.

Also just like to say, no one is forcing people to not wear masks or to go to indoor events, think its unsafe don't go, wear a mask and isolate until this wave passes, i know I am in no hurry to change my habit's atm.
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i agree there needs to be a global solution (vaccinations). Individual countries can choose a path but it looks like this virus is going to be with us in some shape or form for some time yet, so if you let it run rife across the globe then we’ll all keep being at risk.
 

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