Burkini patrol

Status
Not open for further replies.
HellsBells said:
So it's okay to force women at gunpoint to remove their clothes to fit our arbitrary standards of dress, as long as the punishment isn't too harsh?


Why does that matter? Do the police ask women why they got dressed that way this morning before they force you to remove your clothes?

If they do, that makes it worse - I can turn up dressed in leggings, a long sleeved tunic and a scarf wrapped round my head, or @janiep in her Bondi sun covering, and as long as religion didn't play any part in our decision making that morning, then we're allowed to wear it?


Not sure. Probably that I was a Muslim. What else do you think they'd think?

I'd just think you're a bit weird if you dressed as Santa on the beach. If you covered your arms and legs, and wore a head covering then I probably wouldn't look twice at you.
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of what you say and there clearly has been a large element of 'not thinking this through' on the part of the authorities but let's get this straight, they are nt being forced to do anything at gunpoint. All French police and gendarmes routinely carry weapons, it is something you become accustomed to. I can sense your frustration but sensationalist language diminishes your arguments.

HellsBells said:
No she's saying the shooting up rock concerts, running over people with lorries and shooting cartoonists were all done by men.
Click to expand...
The majority were men but some of the attacks in Paris involved women and when the main perpetrator of one of them was cornered he was discovered with two women with suicide belts who activated them at the time.
 
Last edited:


Newcastle Fan said:
Would I have chose to ban the Burkini? No. It's not a security issue, nor does it obscure the face - so the (valid) arguments regarding banning the Burkha don't really apply here. Can't really get my head round this policy tbh

Mind you I'll never understand why the most militant of feminists crumble in the face of Islam, and prefer to defend the right of those who choose to wear it - rather than the many who are instructed to by their husband.

I guess it comes down to which you think is more important....
Click to expand...
Do you speak to many feminists about Islamic dress and oppression? Because feminists arguments have been somewhat successful in tackling some issues linked to Islamic cultures i.e. forced marriage, honour based violence, and female genital mutilation. The argument against a ban on certain kinds of dress is that women should not be forced to wear or not wear certain clothes and therefore a ban and cultural pressure to wear certain clothing should be resisted. Also as Becs pointed in the picture she posted western values put a lot of pressure on women to look a certain way and a significant part of abusive relationships in western couples can be criticism of the way a woman looks: too slutty/too plain. From a feminist perspective the problem is the pressure put on women to look a certain way and the judgements made about the women if they fail to do so and as this occurs across cultures so trying to ban one egregious example will not help solve the wider problem. Also it is unclear how a ban would address the underlying misogynistic views and stop women's appearance being controlled in some other way or make the women freer in any meaningful sense.
 
Epping said:
of course it is. allowes these woman to bathe and enjoy the beach. The olympics accommodated dress code for beach vollyball and other events

it may look a bit odd but its opening up new opportunities to these woman. it isnt going to change overnight but repressing it isnt helping these ladies on the beach on any way.
Click to expand...

I quite admire the French doing it mind. They don't seem to have that liberal hand wringing that we have in the UK.
 
Epping said:
didnt they have something last yer where they banned fat peopek from a beach.

some of the local french mayors are nutters

tbh is this really any different to someone wearing a wetsuit for surfing or diving

Logon or register to see this image
Click to expand...
And if you look at what the woman was wearing yesterday, you'll see she wasn't even wearing a Burkini. Just leggings, a long sleeved top and a scarf wrapped around her head.

Logon or register to see this image
 
HellsBells said:
And if you look at what the woman was wearing yesterday, you'll see she wasn't even wearing a Burkini. Just leggings, a long sleeved top and a scarf wrapped around her head.

Logon or register to see this image
Click to expand...

tbh Fat frenchman, russians etc in tiny speedos with guts hanging over is more offensive

Many find people going topless offensive and trhe french love to do that
 
rokerexile said:
I agree with a lot of what you say and there clearly has been a large element of 'not thinking this through' on the part of the authorities but let's get this straight, they are nt being forced to do anything at gunpoint. All French police and gendarmes routinely carry weapons, it is something you become accustomed to. I can sense your frustration but sensationalist language diminishes your arguments.


The majority were men but some of the attacks in Paris involved women and when the main perpetrator of one of them was cornered he was discovered with two women with suicide belts who activated them at the time.
Click to expand...
Errr. That is not true. There was one woman in the flat and she didn't set off any explosives belt. She was actually recorded shouting ''can i leave now''. The sensationalism diminishes your otherwise decent post.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35375297

French authorities later identified the suicide bomber as Chakib Akrouh based on DNA evidence. Akrouh, a Belgian-Moroccan dual citizen, had been one of the three perpetrators of gun attacks on cafes and restaurants during the Paris attacks
Click to expand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Saint-Denis_raid
 
rokerexile said:
I agree with a lot of what you say and there clearly has been a large element of 'not thinking this through' on the part of the authorities but let's get this straight, they are nt being forced to do anything at gunpoint. All French police and gendarmes routinely carry weapons, it is something you become accustomed to. I can sense your frustration but sensationalist language diminishes your arguments.
Click to expand...
Okay I take your point. However, guns or not, women are being told to remove their clothes in public because of some arbitrary rules that state what some people think is or isn't acceptable for women to wear on the beach. Interestingly, she'd have been fine wearing that walking down the street, I think.
 
Epping said:
didnt they have something last yer where they banned fat peopek from a beach.

some of the local french mayors are nutters

tbh is this really any different to someone wearing a wetsuit for surfing or diving

Logon or register to see this image
Click to expand...
I understand exactly where you are coming from but it is different. The clothes that some muslim women wear are cultural and have become political.
 
Rather amusingly I've literally just had a marketing email from Fourth Element, the diving company.

Headed up "Last chance for the beach - August is drawing to a close but don't despair! With fingers crossed for an Indian Summer, there's still chance to get to the beach - and whether you're spending time on, in or under the water, we've got the gear for you!"

This is what they are selling:

http://life.fourthelement.com/womens-lifestyle/womens-hydroskins.html

Can anyone tell me if I'd be allowed to wear them in France?
 
HellsBells said:
Rather amusingly I've literally just had a marketing email from Fourth Element, the diving company.

Headed up "Last chance for the beach - August is drawing to a close but don't despair! With fingers crossed for an Indian Summer, there's still chance to get to the beach - and whether you're spending time on, in or under the water, we've got the gear for you!"

This is what they are selling:

http://life.fourthelement.com/womens-lifestyle/womens-hydroskins.html

Can anyone tell me if I'd be allowed to wear them in France?
Click to expand...

I suspect you would, which exposes the hypocrisy of the thing. I do think, as has been said, it's a case of local Mayors exercising their authority in silly ways and they should be told by government to rein it in but the way the hierarchy works in French officialdom makes them extremely reluctant to interfere at local level.
 
Still dont know what to make of it. One one hand after all France has been through it's nice to see them have the spine to stick two's up at Islam in general, but when you seemingly have hordes of pissed off muslims inside your borders why potentially make more?

Even on a base level It can't be for asthetics only as a nice fitting body suit can be as attractive as a couple of bits of string with a doormouse's hanky stitched into strategic places.
But as much as we debate it it's their country I suppose they can run it as they see fit
 
Boz33 said:
I'd have thought it's the head bits they are against rather than the body coverage.
Upto the French I guess Altho it seems a ballache patrolling the beaches looking for them
Click to expand...

I think if I was a copper , being asked to patrol a beach checking out women would sound like a canny deal.
 
Boz33 said:
I'd imagine the resolve has hardened since Paris, rightly or wrongly, the French as always will do their own thing in stuff like this it's not like they give a fuck what anyone else thinks anyway
Click to expand...

Yep, they took Agincourt really badly.

HellsBells said:
So if you're saying they should go back to the other countries that force them to wear a certain thing, why are we better than those countries? Is it because we force them to wear fewer clothes? Which is right? Forcing a woman to wear fewer, or more clothes?

Or is it that we should let women make their own choices?
Click to expand...

No sexism here HB. Men aren't allowed to wear burkinis on the beach either.
 
Last edited:
This is on the Aljazeera website, reading it makes me think they want to implement the ban to protect the muslim women who wear them from being singled out as figures of hatred by flaunting their religion in the face of recent attacks by Radical muslims.

'Dozens of French towns and villages, mostly on the Cote d'Azur, have banned beachwear that "conspicuously" shows a person's religion, a measure aimed at the full-body swimsuit dubbed "burkini" but which has also been used against women wearing long clothes and a headscarf.
On Thursday, France's highest administrative court, the Council of State, will examine a request by the Human Rights League to scrap the ban.

Lower courts have upheld the bans, with a tribunal in Nice, where a Tunisian man used a truck to mow down a crowd of Bastille Day revellers on July 14, saying the burkini could "be felt as a defiance or a provocation exacerbating tensions felt by" the community.

France enforces a strict form of secularism, aimed at keeping religion out of public life.

Islamic dress has long been a subject of debate in the country, which was the first in Europe to ban the Islamic face veil in public in 2010, six years after outlawing the headscarf and other conspicuous religious symbols in state schools.

However, ordinary citizens are allowed to wear the headscarf in public.'
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top