VARguments

[dangermows]

It did show it hit his arm as his forearm muscles rippled after impact plus there's another view behind the goal showing the ball chabge direction twice, once after hitting his arm and the other after his hip. Even Keown pointed this out on TV.


Eh? He was offside at the point Silva touched the ball but it wasn't flagged once he went to play and touched the ball. Just because he made 1 step back onside and passed to Sterling seconds after doesn't mean it's 2 more phases

He was offside, it's as simple as that. This angle makes it look less than it was as it's from a TV sideways on that I just nicked off Twitter.

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Let's pretend it did hit his arm, it's still a goal.

 

[maghater]

That is a naive as fuck statement to be honest , as week in week out it is clear as day the human eye is not enough!

Don't think I am naive, probably being more like a dinosaur, I think that one of the endearing things about football was it simplicity, can't argue with goal line technology as the decision is lost instantaneous, this var just slows things down and kills the atmosphere. Mind you I wish we had had it for the Palace playoff game in 2004(ish)

 

[Voice of fair play]

You at spurs would of been out wrongly, yet I have seen PSG go out to man united for a incorrect had ball imo? The spurs 3rd goal most certainly hit his arm before it went in? Wrongly our rightly bar will stay and I hope it becomes more consistent, 1st leg a Man City player could of been sent off for a elbow on Kane on the ground, I just really hope they learn to use it correctly and consistently

Well I agree up to a point, problem is a lot of people focus on the negatives rather than the positives and while there is certainly a lot of room for improvement with it there is also a lot of positives.

The question for me is, will there be more right decisions with it than without it, and surely the answer has to be yes!

Don't think I am naive, probably being more like a dinosaur, I think that one of the endearing things about football was it simplicity, can't argue with goal line technology as the decision is lost instantaneous, this var just slows things down and kills the atmosphere. Mind you I wish we had had it for the Palace playoff game in 2004(ish)

Yeah can see that point, my naive statement, was based of your statement saying let's just get decent refs!

Under modern day football it's simply too difficult for refs, all the evidence points to that, and they clearly need help.

 

[bernardbresslaw]

It hasn’t been like that for over 100 years has it though? You’re telling me the cost of relegation from the top flight in 1919 was north of £100 million?

Or even taking inflation into account, anywhere near that sum of money? No.

I agree VAR takes the excitement away a little bit, but only when you’re on the wrong end of it. Spurs could’ve been wrongly knocked out of the CL last night, which would’ve cost them a fortune.

Remove the money and you remove the need for VAR.

Football shouldn't change just because there's more money? And Spurs wouldn't have been wrongly knocked out.

Well I agree up to a point, problem is a lot of people focus on the negatives rather than the positives and while there is certainly a lot of room for improvement with it there is also a lot of positives.

The question for me is, will there be more right decisions with it than without it, and surely the answer has to be yes!



Yeah can see that point, my naive statement, was based of your statement saying let's just get decent refs!

Under modern day football it's simply too difficult for refs, all the evidence points to that, and they clearly need help.

Another one that just doesn't understand my reason for hating it. Of course more decisions will be right but that is not the be-all and end-all, to me I prefer my football live and I prefer to watch Sunderland. If I can't go mental when we score a crucial goal because I think it will be referred to VAR it will take away an essential part of why we go to the match - not watch it on the telly

 

[myleftfoot1978]

Well I agree up to a point, problem is a lot of people focus on the negatives rather than the positives and while there is certainly a lot of room for improvement with it there is also a lot of positives.

The question for me is, will there be more right decisions with it than without it, and surely the answer has to be yes!



Yeah can see that point, my naive statement, was based of your statement saying let's just get decent refs!

Under modern day football it's simply too difficult for refs, all the evidence points to that, and they clearly need help.

I understand what your saying @Voice of fair play but I still believe a lot of the decisions are subjective to the individual ref, the offside last night I 100 percent agree it has
Been a great call and no one can argue with that.
The problem with the recent pens are they would never of been given without var as they were never deliberately hand ball, yet 2 different ref think it was, if you polled 100 people on the Man City handball and the PSG hand ball I don’t think many people would want a pen given for that

 

[Voice of fair play]

Football shouldn't change just because there's more money? And Spurs wouldn't have been wrongly knocked out.



Another one that just doesn't understand my reason for hating it. Of course more decisions will be right but that is not the be-all and end-all, to me I prefer my football live and I prefer to watch Sunderland. If I can't go mental when we score a crucial goal because I think it will be referred to VAR it will take away an essential part of why we go to the match - not watch it on the telly

I understand your reason perfectly and that's your choice and opinion.

I just happen to think it's more important to get decisions right and a team to have a fair result based of their football rather than a incorrect decision, and think that's more important than you going mental!

I understand what your saying @Voice of fair play but I still believe a lot of the decisions are subjective to the individual ref, the offside last night I 100 percent agree it has
Been a great call and no one can argue with that.
The problem with the recent pens are they would never of been given without var as they were never deliberately hand ball, yet 2 different ref think it was, if you polled 100 people on the Man City handball and the PSG hand ball I don’t think many people would want a pen given for that

Yeah that's fine and a good argument mate, and there was always be them borderline decisions.

 

[Definitely Maybe]

Football shouldn't change just because there's more money? And Spurs wouldn't have been wrongly knocked out.



Another one that just doesn't understand my reason for hating it. Of course more decisions will be right but that is not the be-all and end-all, to me I prefer my football live and I prefer to watch Sunderland. If I can't go mental when we score a crucial goal because I think it will be referred to VAR it will take away an essential part of why we go to the match - not watch it on the telly

I understand what you're saying and I think it comes down to personal preference really, but do you really think people won't celebrate when we score just in case? Goals are disallowed all the time now but people don't not celebrate in case the flag goes up.

 

[c032745y]

It's shit, it's the prawn sandwich brigade wanting a clinical, exact ruling within what should be an organic, pulsating & emotive game. Football is for losing your worries, spending time with your club & mates. It's Ji's goal, Richardson's bullet, Defoe's volley, Monty's save, SKP burying Chelsea, Tommy's Shearer save. It's not watching a f***ing ref decide if any of them are valid with a 2 - 3 minute wait!

Fuck that...

 

[Scotty 1978]

It's shit, it's the prawn sandwich brigade wanting a clinical, exact ruling within what should be an organic, pulsating & emotive game. Football is for losing your worries, spending time with your club & mates. It's Ji's goal, Richardson's bullet, Defoe's volley, Monty's save, SKP burying Chelsea, Tommy's Shearer save. It's not watching a f***ing ref decide if any of them are valid with a 2 - 3 minute wait!

Fuck that...

Absolutely spot on

 

[bernardbresslaw]

I understand what you're saying and I think it comes down to personal preference really, but do you really think people won't celebrate when we score just in case? Goals are disallowed all the time now but people don't not celebrate in case the flag goes up.

I've said a couple of times already, people will still celebrate but not that legs and arms arl owa celebrating like you got against the mags.

It's shit, it's the prawn sandwich brigade wanting a clinical, exact ruling within what should be an organic, pulsating & emotive game. Football is for losing your worries, spending time with your club & mates. It's Ji's goal, Richardson's bullet, Defoe's volley, Monty's save, SKP burying Chelsea, Tommy's Shearer save. It's not watching a f***ing ref decide if any of them are valid with a 2 - 3 minute wait!

Fuck that...

Bang on.

 

[sessions]

Goal line technology and leave it there for me. I’d rather have 2 refs and 4 linesman

 

[The Fitter]

Congrats to the OP for a potentially "gerld" title for a thread, and also a new entry into the oxford dictionary for 2020.

 

[the veteran]

Like VAR happy with both decisions last night
..bottom line........correct call!!!

 

[backer]

I don't think a match is ever improved by an incorrect call, not for a neutral, any way. The pause time is short enough, it's not exactly turned into American football. I'd prefer to get the calls right and have the outcome determined by the play, not the ref.

 

[c032745y]

Like VAR happy with both decisions last night
..bottom line........correct call!!!

bottom line...boring!

 

[TravellingMackem]

It did show it hit his arm as his forearm muscles rippled after impact plus there's another view behind the goal showing the ball chabge direction twice, once after hitting his arm and the other after his hip. Even Keown pointed this out on TV.


Eh? He was offside at the point Silva touched the ball but it wasn't flagged once he went to play and touched the ball. Just because he made 1 step back onside and passed to Sterling seconds after doesn't mean it's 2 more phases

He was offside, it's as simple as that. This angle makes it look less than it was as it's from a TV sideways on that I just nicked off Twitter.

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Fact is that if that went against your team you wouldn’t leave the ground distraught feeling you’d been robbed would you? As far as I’m concerned it’s disallowed on a technicality, not for a “real” offence. I’m not disputing he’s marginally offside, I just don’t feel that this was the intent of VAR when introduced, and shouldn’t be how it is used going forwards.

And I don’t buy your argument about it getting more right than wrong really - Man Utd should definitely not be in the CL quarters this season, doubt you’ll find many who thought that was a penalty. And the llorente handball, while I don’t think it was a penalty they didn’t even show the ref the angle that shows it clearly hit the players arm. This was confirmed by the ref gesturing saying it hit his hip. If you look from a particular angle it clearly strikes his arm then his hip. I don’t think it’s deliberate therefore not handball, but how can the ref make this decision properly when he isn’t even given the correct angle to look at? The decision is not whether it’s hit his hand (as it has), the decision is whether it’s deliberate. Therefore the refereeing team got this one wrong as well

 

[riffraff]

The one arguement in this I really can’t understand is when people say it’s boring or killing the game. It’s ratching up the tension even more ffs.

 

[GK]

I don't think a match is ever improved by an incorrect call, not for a neutral, any way. The pause time is short enough, it's not exactly turned into American football. I'd prefer to get the calls right and have the outcome determined by the play, not the ref.

It interrupts the most important part of the game - the total and utter relief of scoring a goal

That can't be a good thing surely. I prefer mistakes and the refs best judgement than interruptions like that.

The one arguement in this I really can’t understand is when people say it’s boring or killing the game. It’s ratching up the tension even more ffs.

By interrupting goalscoring celebrations? Not sure i understand.

 

[riffraff]

It interrupts the most important part of the game - the total and utter relief of scoring a goal

That can't be a good thing surely. I prefer mistakes and the refs best judgement than interruptions like that.


By interrupting goalscoring celebrations? Not sure i understand.

You do understand.

 

[AC Mack]

Another point about this offside decision at the end; how do we know the linesman wouldn't have given it if VAR wasn't in place? It was tight but just off, so he let it go knowing that if there was a goal then VAR would sort it.

This leads to another problem, as offsides that would usually have been given by the linesman are no longer given, instead leaving it to VAR. But VAR only comes into play if a goal is scored, so tight offsides are effectively scrapped a lot of the time. What if the goal wasn't scored...??

Man City might have ended up with a corner from that passage of play and scored the winner, when in reality it should have been offside before the corner.