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The Mags have beaten us again

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The Fish said:
I think you're showing your age there. Were you to ask a 20yr old neutral, I'd be amazed if they said that Forest, Leeds, Villa or West Brom would enjoy a "natural position" above Newcastle.
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I accept your age related comment, however I never said Forest and Leeds were above Newcastle, just they are on a par. They’ve all won domestic trophies far more recently than those who claim a 52,000 sell out entitles you to greatness.

It’s just my personal opinion that Newcastle fans should have no great axe to grind with Ashley, but they do because of their sense of ‘self entitlement’. You can blame Sky for that

What A Waster said:
Leeds have had 50 top flight seasons.
Forest 56.
Wolves 64
Southampton 40
Leicester 52



Chelsea and Spurs (both 84) have had less top flight seasons than Newcastle, but Bolton have had 73 which is more than all those teams you mentioned other than WBA who have 81.

Not sure how your logic works
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There isn’t a defined logic, it’s just a mixture of a few things like success, fan base, consistency over a number of years (not indefinitely mind).

Newcastle only have their fan base
 
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Eggman said:
I accept your age related comment, however I never said Forest and Leeds were above Newcastle, just they are on a par. They’ve all won domestic trophies far more recently than those who claim a 52,000 sell out entitles you to greatness.

It’s just my personal opinion that Newcastle fans should have no great axe to grind with Ashley, but they do because of their sense of ‘self entitlement’. You can blame Sky for that



There isn’t a defined logic, it’s just a mixture of a few things like success, fan base, consistency over a number of years (not indefinitely mind).

Newcastle only have their fan base
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Forest haven't been a top flight team for 20 years.
Leeds haven't been a top flight team for 15 years.
Both have been in the 3rd division more recently than they've been in the top flight.
 
What A Waster said:
Leeds have had 50 top flight seasons.
Forest 56.
Wolves 64
Southampton 40
Leicester 52



Chelsea and Spurs (both 84) have had less top flight seasons than Newcastle, but Bolton have had 73 which is more than all those teams you mentioned other than WBA who have 81.

Not sure how your logic works
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So by your logic Sunderland are bigger than Chelsea and Spurs.
 
Binxy said:
So by your logic Sunderland are bigger than Chelsea and Spurs.
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I think he is just pointing out the ridiculousness of this criteria.

Lets accept that there is a "natural position" for all clubs.

Are you just supposed to accept it? best not get above your station and want more than your designated natural position.
 
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Eggman said:
I accept your age related comment, however I never said Forest and Leeds were above Newcastle, just they are on a par. They’ve all won domestic trophies far more recently than those who claim a 52,000 sell out entitles you to greatness.

It’s just my personal opinion that Newcastle fans should have no great axe to grind with Ashley, but they do because of their sense of ‘self entitlement’. You can blame Sky for that



There isn’t a defined logic, it’s just a mixture of a few things like success, fan base, consistency over a number of years (not indefinitely mind).

Newcastle only have their fan base
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Out of curiosity where would you have Sunderland's natural position?
 
Amaw said:
I think he is just pointing out the ridiculousness of this criteria.

Lets accept that there is a "natural position" for all clubs.

Are you just supposed to accept it? best not get above your station and want more than your designated natural position.
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It's little wonder they've sat idly by while their team continues to underachieve if this attitude is prevalent.
 
Secret Visage said:
Considering your lot didn't invent football until 1992, then our 6 in a row is the game changer.
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1992 you say? Is that because our crowds went up? Six times since the war you’ve had a bigger average than us. Your crowds went up from about 17 to around 40k when you moved grounds. Please don’t tell me it was because roker park wasn’t big enough because you only sold out around three times before you moved. (I’m not knocking your support by the way, only your argument).
And regarding the six in a row, no black and white is concerned by that now, not to mention the five in a row we did just beforehand.
 
Eggman said:
I accept your age related comment, however I never said Forest and Leeds were above Newcastle, just they are on a par. They’ve all won domestic trophies far more recently than those who claim a 52,000 sell out entitles you to greatness.

It’s just my personal opinion that Newcastle fans should have no great axe to grind with Ashley, but they do because of their sense of ‘self entitlement’. You can blame Sky for that



There isn’t a defined logic, it’s just a mixture of a few things like success, fan base, consistency over a number of years (not indefinitely mind).

Newcastle only have their fan base
Click to expand...

I don't think I can think of anyone who's claimed that.

Our issues with Ashley have been discussed a lot on here, the Newcastle fans are told it's not all that bad, then when the Sunderland fan is losing the argument they fall back on the ol' "It's his club he can do what he likes" gambit.

It's not about league position. Should Newcastle fans hope to be a top half of the top flight side? Sure. We've certainly got everything in place to achieve that with the right investment. But hope isn't expectation, and expectations aren't about final league position, it's about expecting your club to try for the cups, try to finish as high up the league as you can, try to give the manager a competitive budget, try to nurture young talent from the region, try to aim for better, strive for more.

Ashley just wants a Premier League billboard for his sports shop, he wants us to finish 15th every season, get out the cups nice and early, and if we can do that without transfer spend, all the better for him. But yeah, it's about Newcastle fan's entitlement...
 
The Fish said:
I don't think I can think of anyone who's claimed that.

Our issues with Ashley have been discussed a lot on here, the Newcastle fans are told it's not all that bad, then when the Sunderland fan is losing the argument they fall back on the ol' "It's his club he can do what he likes" gambit.

It's not about league position. Should Newcastle fans hope to be a top half of the top flight side? Sure. We've certainly got everything in place to achieve that with the right investment. But hope isn't expectation, and expectations aren't about final league position, it's about expecting your club to try for the cups, try to finish as high up the league as you can, try to give the manager a competitive budget, try to nurture young talent from the region, try to aim for better, strive for more.

Ashley just wants a Premier League billboard for his sports shop, he wants us to finish 15th every season, get out the cups nice and early, and if we can do that without transfer spend, all the better for him. But yeah, it's about Newcastle fan's entitlement...
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Bore off you fat clip.
 
Amaw said:
Where in his post is he wrong though?

This so called natural league position is blooming nonsense.
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Agreed.
How long does a club have to exist before it is allocated a natural league position, and how long does it take to change your natural league position to another one.
 
What A Waster said:
Agreed.
How long does a club have to exist before it is allocated a natural league position, and how long does it take to change your natural league position to another one.
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Yup, I think what he was getting at was the "big club argument" which again is nonsense in my opinion. He was also suggesting that Newcastle fans have a sense of entitlement and we believe we should be challenging for titles, which again is nonsense, I personally don't know any who thinks like that. However we are on a Sunderland message board so that opinion will be held by the majority on here, so I am not that bothered about that.

What really strikes me though, which ever way you want to put it "natural position/big club" is that somehow hoping/dreaming/wanting/demanding/thinking you are capable of more is some how wrong and a stick to beat the fan base with.

But to be fair, it seems that it was only him that thought this as there hasn't been a lot of support for him with people adding their thoughts and he wasn't insulting so it's all good. It's a strange philosophy though, you are defeated before you even begin.
 
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Which other clubs fans do you see going on like spoilt bairns when they don’t get their own way?

It is entitlement built by the Hall and Shepherd regime, simple as that. Half the fuckers watching now probably can’t remember or were even alive when they challenged Man Utd for a season or two but it’s bred into them that it’s their natural order and it’s where they should be.

Abusing some bloke to pay for their enjoyment, if I was Ashley I’d bury the self entitled wankers as deep as I could just out of spite.
 
willo said:
Which other clubs fans do you see going on like spoilt bairns when they don’t get their own way?

It is entitlement built by the Hall and Shepherd regime, simple as that. Half the fuckers watching now probably can’t remember or were even alive when they challenged Man Utd for a season or two but it’s bred into them that it’s their natural order and it’s where they should be.

Abusing some bloke to pay for their enjoyment, if I was Ashley I’d bury the self entitled wankers as deep as I could just out of spite.
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Chelsea. won the Europa league, got to the league cup final and finished 3rd and hounded the manager out because the season had been crap.
 
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