The Catholic church

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Epping said:
what you on about... far more football coaches than there are priests

I really think one of the problems with Priests and the catholic church is the celibacy vow . its stirring up trouble.
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% wise there's a good chance there are more paedo footie coaches than priests, as there will literally be millions of the frock wearing weirdos worldwide compared to footie coaches so it will dilute the %, me thinks you've misread what I wrote

Sir Lancelot said:
Child abuse is more often by a family member than by someone outside of the family. According to statistics, the most likely peopl3 to abuse children are accountants, so I’m not sure why priests etc get so much condemnation. Perhaps we should be teaching our children to avoid accountants?
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The church get it in the neck because there's a massive culture of covering up crimes of there brethren. Most people would pipe up and grass any nonce's they found out about, whereas the churches of all denominations have historically covered up, and indeed discouraged people from reporting any crimes by any means available to them

Gaggoears said:
Child abuse has been covered up by loads of organisations and governments.(UK orphans to Australia) it's rife. Catholic bashing seems to be common on this site, are you going to blame the whole organisation for the actions of a small evil few. Have a go at there weirdo worship of a bunch of misfits, all hell breaks lose. My point is I believe your point is valid. Some on here have an agenda.
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The whole organisation can certainly be blamed for a culture of cover ups. It's been going on for decades and no doubt centuries that the church has batted off any allegations....if the church (of all denominations) as a whole wanted to be seen as open they could release details of all historic accusations it's had and let the cops investigate properly.
 
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Epping said:
what you on about... far more football coaches than there are priests

I really think one of the problems with Priests and the catholic church is the celibacy vow . its stirring up trouble.
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The celibacy vow is one possible answer, another is sexuality. It would appear that the majority of those abused are boys. I'm not sure if that is down to the availability of more boys to priests or it is down to people joining the Catholic church in denial that they are gay?

Some ridiculous answers on this thread by the way. There is a world wide issue of priests abusing thousands of kids in many different countries and the church covering it up for decades.

That fact has nothing to do with any other form of child abuse. Stop trying to play down this scandal.
 
The Great Soprendo said:
Perhaps paedophiles are attracted into professions that give them access to children, but clearly if the tendencies are there in individuals and combined with an opportunity (as has been the case in churches, schools, scout groups, football coaching, hospitals or to extend the discussion into broader sexual abuse, look at the media) then it is more likely to occur, sadly.

There's been a huge amount of wrongdoing in the ranks of the Catholic church (and others) without doubt, not just the abuse but as mentioned, in the cover-up. And yes, it is scandalous not just because it happened, but because it is so contrary to the teaching and ethos of the church. Same arguably applies to children's homes, scout groups, even children's sports coaching organisations, whose stated purposes is to benefit children, not harm them.

To tar these institutions as inherently evil as a result, however, is ludicrous, given the huge amount of good work done by the people in them too. The truth is that humans are sometimes flawed, sometimes marvellous, often even the same people are both. At least with the abuses coming to light we are seeing changes for the better in the way these institutions are run, to make it harder for it to occur in future. As long as we're trying to improve, there's always hope (see also post-takeover SAFC in 2018 :) ).
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It was systemic cover-up coming from the top.

Thats pretty evil no matter what way you try to paint it.
 
Keith S30S said:
The celibacy vow is one possible answer, another is sexuality. It would appear that the majority of those abused are boys. I'm not sure if that is down to the availability of more boys to priests or it is down to people joining the Catholic church in denial that they are gay?

Some ridiculous answers on this thread by the way. There is a world wide issue of priests abusing thousands of kids in many different countries and the church covering it up for decades.

That fact has nothing to do with any other form of child abuse. Stop trying to play down this scandal.
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Maybe if your posts concentrated on child abuse in general, not just Muslim gangs and the Catholic Church. I mean you have history in this area.
 
Gaggoears said:
Maybe if your posts concentrated on child abuse in general, not just Muslim gangs and the Catholic Church. I mean you have history in this area.
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Yes, let's just totally ignore the massive scale abuse carried out by these two groups and keep repeating the line "it's all abuse in general".

While we're on, we can ignore the vip/celeb paedos as well. Let's just concentrate on abuse "in general".
 
WHD said:
Yes, let's just totally ignore the massive scale abuse carried out by these two groups and keep repeating the line "it's all abuse in general".

While we're on, we can ignore the vip/celeb paedos as well. Let's just concentrate on abuse "in general".
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No one on here has said to ignore them. Have you seen the ' Church of England ' cover ups ? The UK government scandal of sending kids to oz knowing they were getting abused cover up ?
 
Gaggoears said:
Maybe if your posts concentrated on child abuse in general, not just Muslim gangs and the Catholic Church. I mean you have history in this area.
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Bonkers.

I abhor all abuse but the covering up of abuse is as bad as the original crime in my eyes. Thousands of kids have let down by the church, police and many others in the above cases. Those people should be investigated and charged for their lack of duty of care.
 
Gaggoears said:
No one on here has said to ignore them. Have you seen the ' Church of England ' cover ups ? The UK government scandal of sending kids to oz knowing they were getting abused cover up ?
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To be honest in my posts I've referred to the "church" in general whether that is Catholic or CofE.

Abuse is also present in Indian religious movements. Read up on the so called respected Indian master called Ramakrishna who was the teacher of the well known Vivekananda and had some strange sexual fetishes. Within Tibetan Buddhism sexual abuse has also been noted by the Dalai Lama although that hasn't involved children.
 
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Keith S30S said:
Bonkers.
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Yes mate. No doubt.

Mercia Blackcat said:
To be honest in my posts I've referred to the "church" in general whether that is Catholic or CofE.

Abuse is also present in Indian religious movements. Read up on the so called respected Indian master called Ramakrishna who was the teacher of the well known Vivekananda and had some strange sexual fetishes.
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My post was for the usual names mate.
 
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Keith S30S said:
The celibacy vow is one possible answer, another is sexuality. It would appear that the majority of those abused are boys. I'm not sure if that is down to the availability of more boys to priests or it is down to people joining the Catholic church in denial that they are gay?

Some ridiculous answers on this thread by the way. There is a world wide issue of priests abusing thousands of kids in many different countries and the church covering it up for decades.

That fact has nothing to do with any other form of child abuse. Stop trying to play down this scandal.
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I'm reminded of a quote by Alan Bennett who after years of celibacy was asked whether he was gay or straight.
His reply was that was rather like asking someone who had crawled across the Sahara and was desperate for water whether he preferred still or sparkling.
I think the point he was making was that it was intimacy that he was craving. And that is my issue with the Catholic Church and it's rules of enforced celibacy. We all crave intimacy, how does that need leak out if that basic human need is suppressed.
I was raised a Catholic and encountered abusers within the Church as a child. I also encountered priests who were chronic alcoholics and a few who were in illicit heterosexual relationships. With the advantage of old age and the anonymity of the SMB I can say that my response was to close down, to lose my faith. 30 years later when I wrote to the head of an order I received a letter back which was so insulting, so concerned at protecting his position that I went back into a very lonely form of shock for a day or so.
''The institution that is set up to preserve an ideal inevitably strangles it.''
I believe that was Nietzche that wrote that. That's how I hold the Church, founded originally on the most overarching principles of love now strangled by their own rules and their own greed.
Greed_Priests were allowed to marry until the Middle ages. It was the fear of losing wealth by succesion rights which caused the Church to impose celibacy.
 
HerdnMulhall said:
I'm reminded of a quote by Alan Bennett who after years of celibacy was asked whether he was gay or straight.
His reply was that was rather like asking someone who had crawled across the Sahara and was desperate for water whether he preferred still or sparkling.
I think the point he was making was that it was intimacy that he was craving. And that is my issue with the Catholic Church and it's rules of enforced celibacy. We all crave intimacy, how does that need leak out if that basic human need is suppressed.
I was raised a Catholic and encountered abusers within the Church as a child. I also encountered priests who were chronic alcoholics and a few who were in illicit heterosexual relationships. With the advantage of old age and the anonymity of the SMB I can say that my response was to close down, to lose my faith. 30 years later when I wrote to the head of an order I received a letter back which was so insulting, so concerned at protecting his position that I went back into a very lonely form of shock for a day or so.
''The institution that is set up to preserve an ideal inevitably strangles it.''
I believe that was Nietzche that wrote that. That's how I hold the Church, founded originally on the most overarching principles of love now strangled by their own rules and their own greed.
Greed_Priests were allowed to marry until the Middle ages. It was the fear of losing wealth by succesion rights which caused the Church to impose celibacy.
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Good post again. The early movement under Jesus had several disciples that were married, both male and female. I'm not suggesting Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene because there is no evidence to support that, but there was certainly no custom as a Rabbi that prevented him marrying if he so wished. There were also some that remained celibate through choice for their entire life such as James the brother of Jesus. It was a matter of personal choice rather than an imposed convention.
 
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Mercia Blackcat said:
Good post again. The early movement under Jesus had several disciples that were married, both male and female. I'm not suggesting Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene because there is no evidence to support that, but there was certainly no custom as a Rabbi that prevented him marrying if he so wished. There were also some that remained celibate through choice for their entire life such as James the brother of Jesus. It was a matter of personal choice rather than an imposed convention.
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'And Jesus loved John above all men.'... Is there not a passage somewhere which tells of a bit of ...whats the modern day phrase...Brolove..of the disciples walking in and seeing John asleep on Jesus's chest_
The fact remains though imho you deny priests and nuns the right for emotional and sexual expression and somewhere that great human need will leak out in very sad ways in instances. Like anger and child abuse and alcoholism and a great many other unpleasant aspects.
 
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