The Catholic church

Gaggoears said:
Exactly. Especially the way narra judges.


As opposed to a normal person ? WTF.
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I never said abuse by a 'normal' person was acceptable in the slightest way.

You're just deflecting away from the fact that to the child the abuser is a perceived servant of God.

Do the psychological implications of that really need explaining?
 


Mercia Blackcat said:
I never said abuse by a 'normal' person was acceptable in the slightest way.

You're just deflecting away from the fact that to the child the abuser is a perceived servant of God.

Do the psychological implications of that really need explaining?
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Not sure a kid abused gives a shit who has done it. It's life ruining, full stop.
 
Gaggoears said:
Not sure a kid abused gives a shit who has done it. It's life ruining, full stop.
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I appreciate what you're saying but for me there's a bit more distain for the institution that does so much more to hide child abuse when it's mission statement is...Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. It's a special kind of hypocrisy deserving of comment imo.
 
JonMc said:
No I don't. But if you are believing in that report you have to acknowledge that homosexuality is just as much a factor in conjunction with the celibacy. I disagree with that too.
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I have absolutely no problem with saying homosexuality could be a factor when it comes to men taking advantage of young lads.
 
JonMc said:
I appreciate what you're saying but for me there's a bit more distain for the institution that does so much more to hide child abuse when it's mission statement is...Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. It's a special kind of hypocrisy deserving of comment imo.
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Child abuse has been covered up by loads of organisations and governments.(UK orphans to Australia) it's rife. Catholic bashing seems to be common on this site, are you going to blame the whole organisation for the actions of a small evil few. Have a go at there weirdo worship of a bunch of misfits, all hell breaks lose. My point is I believe your point is valid. Some on here have an agenda.
 
Some Random Guy said:
I have absolutely no problem with saying homosexuality could be a factor when it comes to men taking advantage of young lads.
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Maybe you don't but it is a problem for those who have challenged that particular finding...Dr Judy Courtin...

'Courtin said that the evidence was “absolutely clear” that sexual crimes involving children and paedophilia “have nothing to do with homosexuality at all”..;.“And homosexuality is one of the reasons or excuses that the church has used for a long time and it’s wrong, inappropriate and inaccurate of them,” she said. “Paedophilia does not equate with homosexuality.”

Gaggoears said:
Child abuse has been covered up by loads of organisations and governments.(UK orphans to Australia) it's rife. Catholic bashing seems to be common on this site, are you going to blame the whole organisation for the actions of a small evil few. Have a go at there weirdo worship of a bunch of misfits, all hell breaks lose. My point is I believe your point is valid. Some on here have an agenda.
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Absolutely not. Most of the time on here I'm accused of doing the opposite. ;)
 
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JonMc said:
Maybe you don't but it is a problem for those who have challenged that particular finding...Dr Judy Courtin...

'Courtin said that the evidence was “absolutely clear” that sexual crimes involving children and paedophilia “have nothing to do with homosexuality at all”..;.“And homosexuality is one of the reasons or excuses that the church has used for a long time and it’s wrong, inappropriate and inaccurate of them,” she said. “Paedophilia does not equate with homosexuality.”
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Pedophilia doesn't equate with homosexuality. However, a person's sexuality will certainly influence who they attempt to sleep with. I would say AJ being heterosexual was a factor when he decided to have a fumble with a minor.

I did say in my first reply that a proportion of people would probably shag a goat if celibate for long enough, that doesn't mean they were into beastiality from day dot. I think it's a complex issue that can have many factors come into play personally.
 
JonMc said:
The whole club was a disgrace. It's the same as a priest having been charged still giving mass on a weekly basis and the congregation supporting him to the hilt. No different. Vile is vile.
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Absolutely. Vile is vile. One of the criticisms of AJ was that he abused a position of trust. For that he was condemned and that resulted in a higher sentence because he was in the public eye.

However, where does that place a priest in the eye of a child who conducts baptisms, confirmations, weddings and funerals. An intermediary with God regarding every aspect of life from birth to death.
JonMc said:
I appreciate what you're saying but for me there's a bit more distain for the institution that does so much more to hide child abuse when it's mission statement is...Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. It's a special kind of hypocrisy deserving of comment imo.
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And that puts it in perspective.

The club may have turned a blind eye because it suited them but they didn't try to cover it up.

They couldn't. They didn't have that power.
 
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Mercia Blackcat said:
Absolutely. Vile is vile. One of the criticisms of AJ was that he abused a position of trust. For that he was condemned and that resulted in a higher sentence because he was in the public eye.
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I will argue to the end of time that he wasn't in a position of trust regardless of whether I think he's a wrang'un or not.
 
WHD said:
When you have a huge organisation like the catholic church, where it seems a great many of its priests were involved in abuse and then there has been a massive coverup going right to the top, it's hardly "tinkering round the edges" highlighting and investigating it.

If you cannot see the difference between an organisation covering up systematic abuse and individuals carrying out abuse in a family setting, then I'm afraid it's you who has an agenda.

Going by your tone it was obvious you were biased towards the catholic church. How do you suggest we concentrate on stopping abuse in the home, as opposed to uncovering the massive scandal in the catholic church? Maybe instead of carrying out operation yewtree, the police should have turned a blind eye to abuse by celebrities and concentrated on family members, after all, it's only a tiny minority of all abuse that is carried out by celebrities.
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I’m saying we should prioritise the place where the majority of abuse is committed. That doesn’t mean to ignore what is happening in professional organisations just that it’s important to protect the majority of children being abused rather than eliminate a handful of outliers.

You clearly want to make this adversarial and give the impression that you have the moral high ground, but you don’t. In fact, it worries me that you are so keen to ignore the fact that over 98% of abuse takes place in the home. Why you would chose to ignore that fact is a mystery to me but I’m guessing that you have your reasons.
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
Can any of those trying to deflect attention away from the church even contemplate the horror of being raped and sodomised as a child by an appointed representative of God?

Those that are religious, rather than trying to deflect attention away should be condemning such disgraceful abuse in the strongest terms.
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Whataboutism seems to be very popular on this thread.

JonMc said:
The whole club was a disgrace. It's the same as a priest having been charged still giving mass on a weekly basis and the congregation supporting him to the hilt. No different. Vile is vile.
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Can you show me one post of mine where I defended Byrne or the club?

If you think what happened with AJ is even close to the centuries of perverts being hidden by the worlds biggest church then you're simply wrong.

The Catholic Church is evil.
 
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Sir Lancelot said:
I’m saying we should prioritise the place where the majority of abuse is committed. That doesn’t mean to ignore what is happening in professional organisations just that it’s important to protect the majority of children being abused rather than eliminate a handful of outliers.

You clearly want to make this adversarial and give the impression that you have the moral high ground, but you don’t. In fact, it worries me that you are so keen to ignore the fact that over 98% of abuse takes place in the home. Why you would chose to ignore that fact is a mystery to me but I’m guessing that you have your reasons.
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The Mrs is paedo mental when it comes to our kid (12), was fun pointing out that the pair of us are statistically more likely to nonce him than anyone else.

Now I look at her funny when she gives him a hug.
 
Sir Lancelot said:
I’m saying we should prioritise the place where the majority of abuse is committed. That doesn’t mean to ignore what is happening in professional organisations just that it’s important to protect the majority of children being abused rather than eliminate a handful of outliers.

You clearly want to make this adversarial and give the impression that you have the moral high ground, but you don’t. In fact, it worries me that you are so keen to ignore the fact that over 98% of abuse takes place in the home. Why you would chose to ignore that fact is a mystery to me but I’m guessing that you have your reasons.
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if its found out in the home it is reported and action is taken.

if its found out in the church a cover up happened.

can you not see how that is so different.
 
Narraback said:
Can you show me one post of mine where I defended Byrne or the club?

If you think what happened with AJ is even close to the centuries of perverts being hidden by the worlds biggest church then you're simply wrong.

The Catholic Church is evil.
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I didn't say you did defend him and I equated AJ's actions quite correctly in my post.

The church isn't evil. It's an institution made up of many facets some of which continue to have far too much power than they should. The church is also ordinary people including medical professionals who take extended leave of absences at work to do their charity calling abroad and at home. Within the catholic circles I walk in I regularly advise these folk to take back their church...for it is their church.

The institution regularly exceeds the mandate for which it was created and the supporters of an institution will regularly seek to protect it even though it exceeds its remit. Such is life.
 
Epping said:
if its found out in the home it is reported and action is taken.

if its found out in the church a cover up happened.

can you not see how that is so different.
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The important word is ‘if’. There should be no ‘if’. Every child should know what to do if an adult, or any other person, abuses them. They should know what being abused means. They should be taught from the very start that it is wrong for people to abuse them, and that they must report it the appropriate authorities. If they are frightened by threats to other members of their family then should be assured that those people would be protected.

If you stamp out abuse in the home then you create an environment in which abuse cannot exist outside the home, because every child would recognise that they were being groomed and selected for abuse, and they would know how to report it. That’s why solving the home abuse is far better than simply throwing abuse at one particular organisation.
 
Narraback said:
Whataboutism seems to be very popular on this thread.



Can you show me one post of mine where I defended Byrne or the club?

If you think what happened with AJ is even close to the centuries of perverts being hidden by the worlds biggest church then you're simply wrong.

The Catholic Church is evil.
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. Some of your rantings are beyond ridiculous.
 
Epping said:
if its found out in the home it is reported and action is taken.
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Never used to. Within my lifetime uncles...friends of friends in mining communities sometimes just seemed to disappear into thin air and when questioned people would give a vague answer that they had moved on for no particular reason....'got a job down south' was one I remember. Obviously warned off but allowed to continue their 'desires' elsewhere...out of sight, out of mind. Because of the shame of it, I suppose. Family honour and all that.

The amount of folk who just saw a little embarrassment as a punishment for a lifetime of abusing must have been staggering in the day.

Nowadays we're just starting to get a grip on things...but yes, the church will always be far too slow in moving with the times. Its natural propensity is still to cover and protect when the opposite...openness and honesty would protect it more successfully.
 

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