Second Ashes test - Your team

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Burns
Roy
Root
Malan
Stokes
Buttler
Foakes (WK)
Woakes
Archer
Broad
Leach

Could throw in either Northeast or Sibley for Malan but going to give him another go as he batted well over there in 2017/18 and if we produce any more pitches like Edgbaston he'll cope OK.

Ali simply cannot play and Bairstow has flattered to deceive for too long at test level.
 


TheRey said:
Burns
Roy
Root
Foakes (WK)
Stokes
Buttler
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Archer
Leach

I really don't think JRoy will crack Test cricket, but you have to give him a fair crack of the whip.
The bizarre Denley experiment should now be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Play Stokes for his batting, and at absolute most a few four over bursts if needed.

Bairstow has been an embarrassment on and off the field for a while now, and we can't afford to carry anyone in case they throw a sulk. Foakes gets runs more consistently, and is a better gloveman. Foakes will add, IMO, a bit of solidity to the middle order.

Curran was excellent in English conditions last year, and deserves another chance at Test cricket. Gets vital runs and wickets.

Unfortunately, Ali is too unreliable with the ball, and the Aussies know unless he's absolutely on his game, he can be easily milked. Leach can apply pressure and help Root keep us in the game. His batting can't be any worse, either.


It's not about wholesale changes as a knee-jerk reaction to one Test defeat - it's looking at the performances of certain players over a period of time, and acting accordingly.
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I think this is the team, absolutely.

Pains me to say it, but I think Ali needs to be taken out again. He's a confidence player and he's very low on confidence. If he goes back to country level and bags some runs his bowling will improve - how he bats determines his confidence. Then maybe he can be brought back, but he's such a confidence player and he seems genuinely scared of the Aussies.

I would caution not to expect too much from Leach. Nothing about his performances so far have indicated he can be a match-winner, like an on-song Ali or - more importantly - Nathan Lyon. Leach may be able to hold down an end better and offer a bit more control, but he got walloped about by the Irish, so I'm not expecting great shakes. If we get turning wickets like Edgbaston we are done for - it is as simple as that. Their batsman are better against the turning ball and clearly Lyon is the premier spinner amongst both sides. But Leach deserves his shots, to that's that.

Bairstow too should be peddled. The whinging will be unbelievable but he was nothing short of dire in that match, with the gloves too. Moreover, the balance of the side dictates bringing in a top order batsman to accommodate Curran whose competitiveness and character will hopefully be infectious. I can see him getting right up the Australian noses and I think he's the sort of bowler who might pick up a couple of arrogance wickets as they try and smash him out the attack. He's not a test class bowler, but he's good enough to require respect, so that should be fun. His presence also allows us to manage Stokes, Woakes and Archer - although that requires skilful captaincy and we've just witnessed perhaps the worst display from an English captain in my life. Not sure what the answer to that is - we can hardly demote our best batsman mid-series, but that was utterly woeful. There is of course one excellent English (Irish) captain knocking around who might be able to do a passable number four impression and much more of that from Root and it shall have to be considered. Seriously.

I am not sure who to bring in at four. It is true that this is Foakes's country position and I like the cut of his jib - and, to be frank, his conservative technique. He may be just about the best batsman in England - certainly one of, though Jennings is also up there - against spin as well. But that might be a kneejerk reaction - as I say, if the wickets are turning, we are stuffed and surely playing pace and seam is the more necessary quality for Lords. The challenge is: who else would you bring in if you gave Buttler the gloves instead? Sad fact is that of available middle order batsman, only Northeast and Ballance are ahead of the in-form Denly in the Division one averages this year, and only Sibley ahead if looking for a top-order alternative (and Roy moving down, say?). You can't, surely, put Ballance in against Mitchell Starc - we know what would happen. And I'm not sure about Northeast, so it's either Sibley or Foakes for me - and you've probably got to give Roy a chance at the top of the order first. I think he'll be a success at test cricket myself, but I'm just not sure where - perhaps number three. We shall see.

I guess as another OP said - Malan is an option, but he is more of a South African or Australian pitch specialist. Not sure at all about him in England versus the moving ball. Would definitely take him down under next time we go, but not here.
One thing I am looking forward to - perhaps wrongly, given he will probably look comfortable anyway - is seeing Jofra on a greentop aiming for Smith's gullet. Would love to see him crash one into his head.
 
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Comeback_Kenwyne said:
I think this is the team, absolutely.

Pains me to say it, but I think Ali needs to be taken out again. He's a confidence player and he's very low on confidence. If he goes back to country level and bags some runs his bowling will improve - how he bats determines his confidence. Then maybe he can be brought back, but he's such a confidence player and he seems genuinely scared of the Aussies.

I would caution not to expect too much from Leach. Nothing about his performances so far have indicated he can be a match-winner, like an on-song Ali or - more importantly - Nathan Lyon. Leach may be able to hold down an end better and offer a bit more control, but he got walloped about by the Irish, so I'm not expecting great shakes. If we get turning wickets like Edgbaston we are done for - it is as simple as that. Their batsman are better against the turning ball and clearly Lyon is the premier spinner amongst both sides. But Leach deserves his shots, to that's that.

Bairstow too should be peddled. The whinging will be unbelievable but he was nothing short of dire in that match, with the gloves too. Moreover, the balance of the side dictates bringing in a top order batsman to accommodate Curran whose competitiveness and character will hopefully be infectious. I can see him getting right up the Australian noses and I think he's the sort of bowler who might pick up a couple of arrogance wickets as they try and smash him out the attack. He's not a test class bowler, but he's good enough to require respect, so that should be fun. His presence also allows us to manage Stokes, Woakes and Archer - although that requires skilful captaincy and we've just witnessed perhaps the worst display from an English captain in my life. Not sure what the answer to that is - we can hardly demote our best batsman mid-series, but that was utterly woeful. There is of course one excellent English (Irish) captain knocking around who might be able to do a passable number four impression and much more of that from Root and it shall have to be considered. Seriously.

I am not sure who to bring in at four. It is true that this is Foakes's country position and I like the cut of his jib - and, to be frank, his conservative technique. He may be just about the best batsman in England - certainly one of, though Jennings is also up there - against spin as well. But that might be a kneejerk reaction - as I say, if the wickets are turning, we are stuffed and surely playing pace and seam is the more necessary quality for Lords. The challenge is: who else would you bring in if you gave Buttler the gloves instead? Sad fact is that of available middle order batsman, only Northeast and Ballance are ahead of the in-form Denly in the Division one averages this year, and only Sibley ahead if looking for a top-order alternative (and Roy moving down, say?). You can't, surely, put Ballance in against Mitchell Starc - we know what would happen. And I'm not sure about Northeast, so it's either Sibley or Foakes for me - and you've probably got to give Roy a chance at the top of the order first. I think he'll be a success at test cricket myself, but I'm just not sure where - perhaps number three. We shall see.

I guess as another OP said - Malan is an option, but he is more of a South African or Australian pitch specialist. Not sure at all about him in England versus the moving ball. Would definitely take him down under next time we go, but not here.
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My problem with that team is that there are only 3 proper batsmen, one of those is not a Test batsman, he's being given another change and fair enough, another is trying to establish himself but not yet succeeded imho and the other is Root playing higher up than he's comfortable with. It seems like we'd be replacing a problem line up with a different problem line up.
 
Burns
Sibley
Root
Stokes
Hain
Ballance
Foakes
Woakes
Archer
Broad
Leach

Back up: Malan, Butler, Bairstow and Roy
 
Bri said:
My problem with that team is that there are only 3 proper batsmen, one of those is not a Test batsman, he's being given another change and fair enough, another is trying to establish himself but not yet succeeded imho and the other is Root playing higher up than he's comfortable with. It seems like we'd be replacing a problem line up with a different problem line up.
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The cupboard is bare. Foakes did nothing wrong too - don't think England can afford to drop batsman who are averaging over 40 in test cricket, can they? Bring him back. What are the options? As far as I see it: Sibley, Northeast and Malan. Maybe, Crawly or Hildreth. I guess Hildreth is an option if we want so smuggle in some captaincy nous...

This time last year we'd have had a look at Clarke and Pope, but both are out of form and the former is not getting picked by the ECB for some time due to PR concerns.
 
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Comeback_Kenwyne said:
The cupboard is bare. Foakes did nothing wrong too - don't think England can afford to drop batsman who are averaging over 40 in test cricket, can they? Bring him back. What are the options? As far as I see it: Sibley, Northeast and Malan. Maybe, Crawly or Hildreth. I guess Hildreth is an option if we want so smuggle in some captaincy nous...

This time last year we'd have had a look at Clarke and Pope, but both are out of form and the former is not getting picked by the ECB for some time due to PR concerns.
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I take your point ofc. I opted for Sibley and dropped Roy down a spot - but as you say the cupboard is bare.
 
Bri said:
I have no faith in Roy as an opener and doubts about him as a Test player. Yes players like him and buttler can make hay when the sun shines but can they dig in when the Aussies put the pressure on as they always do. I doubt it. So I'd drop him down a bit, leave Buttler out and bring in Foakes - taking TheRey's point about solidity. I'd also bring in Sibley.

Burns
Sibley
Roy
Root
Stokes
Foakes
Bairstow
Woakes
Broad
Archer
Leach

I'll be frank, I still have little faith in this side, I don't think it's possible to put a good side together overnight.
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If you're bringing Foakes in, then you might as well drop Bairstow
 
Other than Archer for Anderson I can't see them changing it. A lot of has been made of the defeat in the first test of the 2005 Ashes and how they didn't panic and change the line up. These players are a tight group and for better or worse I believe they will stick together.
 
scoob_y said:
Other than Archer for Anderson I can't see them changing it. A lot of has been made of the defeat in the first test of the 2005 Ashes and how they didn't panic and change the line up. These players are a tight group and for better or worse I believe they will stick together.
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Aye but were going to Lords where they usually beat us. Tad different
 
mackembhoy said:
Aye but were going to Lords where they usually beat us. Tad different
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And we just played at Edgbaston...where we usually beat them. Tad different too.

I just think that for the 2nd test they will believe that they are good enough to get a result, nobody else might believe but I think they will and nothing will change. If we go 0-2 down in the series then yes but not for the 2nd Test, Lords or not.
 
scoob_y said:
Other than Archer for Anderson I can't see them changing it. A lot of has been made of the defeat in the first test of the 2005 Ashes and how they didn't panic and change the line up. These players are a tight group and for better or worse I believe they will stick together.
Click to expand...
The 2005 team was a lot different to this one. Then they had a plan, the team was great in all departments and the captain knew what he was about. In a sense today's 50 over team and the 2005 test team were similar.
 
Bri said:
The 2005 team was a lot different to this one. Then they had a plan, the team was great in all departments and the captain knew what he was about. In a sense today's 50 over team and the 2005 test team were similar.
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I don't think people are comparing the teams so much as the circumstances they find themselves in. I was thinking more along the lines of the current team generating a siege mentality, thinking they can come out and prove the doubters wrong.
 
SpiritofBurnden said:
I hope Lords aren't planning to allow the Boorish Army in.

Cricket should be accompanied by the gentle murmer of conversation, the clinking of wine glasses and the occasional braying sound from a toff in a stripey blazer.
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I got threatened with a ban on a CC forum for suggesting Middlesex fans were like this.
 
scoob_y said:
Other than Archer for Anderson I can't see them changing it. A lot of has been made of the defeat in the first test of the 2005 Ashes and how they didn't panic and change the line up. These players are a tight group and for better or worse I believe they will stick together.
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Tend to agree, Archer will be the only change.
 
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