Notre Dame (Paris) on fire?

SYB_DC

Winger
He said any of us humans . That includes all of us , and all our children. You said you can understand it, but it doesn't seem as nice when your own family are mentioned. This is why i don't agree with his statement. I'll just leave you to the thread now, and you can carry on licking his hoop
I think my subsequent posts have made clear what I meant. I find your point of view understandable but ultimately far more individualistic than my own values. The strangest bit about all this is why you seem insistent upon making your disagreements personal.

Good post.

My argument is that as a species, we have to continue to progress. Hence, your second paragraph is particuarly interesting. If we have made advances in construction and technology, but haven't actually been able to build anything as a species to surpass it, then we haven't progressed and we can't truly say we've advanced in any meaningful sense. We're stagnant, and standing in thrall of old monuments such as Notre Dame - as beautiful as they were. Old building and monuments collapsing, or being destroyed by whatever means is the natural order of things. The goal always has to be build something better. Or else, what's the fucking point? Existential, indeed.
In many respects, we've moved past "better," and replaced it with shortcuts in order to save money or time, both frequently to the benefit of individuals rather than society. That's one of the reasons seeing this is so sad.

Now there is a lot to unpack in terms of how a giant edifice built to the glory of the version of the Catholic church that existed nine centuries ago has metamorphosed into the cultural icon (not an accidental term) that it has become today, but @sonson's excellent post covered most of that.
 
Why on earth have the Catholic church been begging for funding for renovation funds? During the Greek financial crash the orthodox church there gave billions of ££ in funding to prop up the country.....Now if a small church like the Greek orthodox church had billions stashed then how much does the Catholic church have squirreled away?
 

yorkyexile

Striker
They’ll have had a major incident plan. It’s not necessarily suspicious that they were able to save their prized possessions.

The fact that the fire started five minutes after it closed, is more suspicious in my opinion.
not nessacerily matey. If the repairs have included lead capping, lead burning or any use of a blow torch it can smoulder for ages afterwards before lighting properly. Couple of our houses set light about 7pm after heating engineers had been ion the lofts about 4
 

Elephant

Winger
This man has the answer.

@realDonaldTrump: So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!
The French reply.

Sécurité Civile Fr‏ @SecCivileFrance
Hundreds of firemen of the Paris Fire Brigade are doing everything they can to bring the terrible #NotreDame fire under control. All means are being used, except for water-bombing aircrafts which, if used, could lead to the collapse of the entire structure of the cathedral.
 
Why on earth have the Catholic church been begging for funding for renovation funds? During the Greek financial crash the orthodox church there gave billions of ££ in funding to prop up the country.....Now if a small church like the Greek orthodox church had billions stashed then how much does the Catholic church have squirreled away?
That is a nice idea but unlikely don't you think.
 

Kent_Mackem

Striker
I hope you realise that the lunatics on either side of the spectrum are just as mental as each other. It’s clear which side of the lunatic spectrum you belong.
Why am I a lunatic? By my gently questioning and parodying a conundrum presented to a believer - i.e. why their god would allow a building built for him to burn down?

Dear me.

Seemed a weird thread on which to stoke a debate about 'believers'.
But all of the other off piste comments are perfectly acceptable to you? Interesting.
 
That is a nice idea but unlikely don't you think.
What is a nice idea? The Catholic church not sending out the begging bowls for renovation to one of the most iconic catholic churches in the world? Surely they would want to repair Gods house and the catholic church is staggeringly rich.
 
I think my subsequent posts have made clear what I meant. I find your point of view understandable but ultimately far more individualistic than my own values. The strangest bit about all this is why you seem insistent upon making your disagreements personal.



In many respects, we've moved past "better," and replaced it with shortcuts in order to save money or time, both frequently to the benefit of individuals rather than society. That's one of the reasons seeing this is so sad.

Now there is a lot to unpack in terms of how a giant edifice built to the glory of the version of the Catholic church that existed nine centuries ago has metamorphosed into the cultural icon (not an accidental term) that it has become today, but @sonson's excellent post covered most of that.
It's not personal at all. I have never noticed your username on here before, and i always reply to the post , not the poster. Like i said, i still find it an odd opinion, but i will leave yous to it.
 

sonson

Striker
I think my subsequent posts have made clear what I meant. I find your point of view understandable but ultimately far more individualistic than my own values. The strangest bit about all this is why you seem insistent upon making your disagreements personal.



In many respects, we've moved past "better," and replaced it with shortcuts in order to save money or time, both frequently to the benefit of individuals rather than society. That's one of the reasons seeing this is so sad.

Now there is a lot to unpack in terms of how a giant edifice built to the glory of the version of the Catholic church that existed nine centuries ago has metamorphosed into the cultural icon (not an accidental term) that it has become today, but @sonson's excellent post covered most of that.
Broadly speaking I fear the move towards individualism will be the West’s undoing. All civilizations fail but ours is the first to reject the fundamental reality that we need each other to survive. Notre Dame would never have been made in an era which rejected the need for society and community and a belief in the essential importance of humanity as a collective (even if that was just the collective of Christendom)
 

zwartekat

Striker
But all of the other off piste comments are perfectly acceptable to you? Interesting.
Not particularly. Judging from the number of times the 'hump' joke has been posted, I'm not sure how many people actually read the thread. I'm an atheist myself but I think most believers are rational enough not to be having some crisis over a tragic, but essentially everyday, occurrence.
 
It has stood for a multitude of different things over nearly a millennium. Ignoring everything else that has changed around it over that time-politics, culture, war, peace-even if you just examined the change in the concept of Church itself that has happened in the past 900 years it’s been there, what it’s stood for, what it’s opposed, at what point, who, why etc, that’s a big deal.

And look at when it was built and built upon, and how, and why, and with what tools and knowledge etc. It’s absolutely arguable that for all our advances in construction and technology, there will never again be a building built which matches it’s beauty and iconic stature in all that remains of our species history.

The erosion or destruction of anything that has seen humanity in all its scope, evil, dreadful, beautiful and glorious all at once, for a very long period of time, is a profound loss. It is a reminder that some (most) things are bigger than us and our mortality. We share in a massive and complex narrative for a mere fraction of time. Notre Dame and buildings like it speak to a truth of existence that no one life ever can.

And now my newly born nephew will never get to visit it like I have. It’s gone. Survived countless revolutions, wars, World War Fucking 2, now just snuffsd out on a Monday. Something as seemingly immortal as that. It’s a very existential moment.
Bravo!!
 

AlpineExile

Striker
He said any of us humans . That includes all of us , and all our children. You said you can understand it, but it doesn't seem as nice when your own family are mentioned. This is why i don't agree with his statement. I'll just leave you to the thread now, and you can carry on licking his hoop
I think you're underestimating your fellow humans.
 

SYB_DC

Winger
Broadly speaking I fear the move towards individualism will be the West’s undoing. All civilizations fail but ours is the first to reject the fundamental reality that we need each other to survive. Notre Dame would never have been made in an era which rejected the need for society and community and a belief in the essential importance of humanity as a collective (even if that was just the collective of Christendom)
It's not just the West. I think the move towards individualism to the exclusion of other values by most power centers worldwide is the world's undoing.

It's not personal at all. I have never noticed your username on here before, and i always reply to the post , not the poster. Like i said, i still find it an odd opinion, but i will leave yous to it.
I don't think there's much other way to read some of your comments to me and to @AlpineExile than personally, but if you're not seeing that then I can see why we're rather talking past each other. I'm not angry or anything; it just seems a strange argument to make that you can call someone "fucking strange" and think it's not personal. Have a good night.
 

Kent_Mackem

Striker
Not particularly. Judging from the number of times the 'hump' joke has been posted, I'm not sure how many people actually read the thread. I'm an atheist myself but I think most believers are rational enough not to be having some crisis over a tragic, but essentially everyday, occurrence.
Agreed. I’m sure they won’t be having a crisis, as it would be more difficult for them to think about how it could have been “allowed” to happen. They tend not to think about such things.

Yes, but why raise that?
Why not? Have a read through the rest of the thread for other off piste comments. Why object to me rising it is more interesting.
 

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