Imran Tahir - Part II
- Thread starter essex boy
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ProfessionalMackem
Striker
Err is he top wicket taker like?
didnt realise he was nearly 32 thought he was a youngin coming through.
GarethQ
Striker
Easy now you upstart, have you been in this debate from the beginning?
I accept your apology.
I can't see what you see in him, he's much more of a Mustaq type (than a Kumble) but doesn't turn it half as much, and I don't think he has the control to be top class. I've seen him a few times, in the spinners heaven at OT, I don't see it.
Jimmy Anderson (yippee!), after a great series down under you were straight in when he had a shocker against Holland.
neither could anyone else see what I could see in the Aussies in 2007, the media will start covering Tahir (upon which the SMB will be saying how good he is as is the norm) when they realise he is the missing spinner the Saffers have been craving and England wont stand a chance of being number one as the saffers will pull away from the rest.
Il refer back to this thread in a year or so
Kaneria, Afridi and Mushtaq would have taken 500 plus wickets if they were English, yet they have taken barely half that due to the politics of Pakistan cricket. Pakistan cricket also produce more leg spinners than anyone else. If you cannot acknowledge this point, fair enough
The Breen Machine
Striker
Kaneria has played about 70 tests man, the reason he hasn't taken anywhere near 500 wickets is that he's usually very expensive and only bowls well on flat pitches
Afridi is a good ODI bowler but never threatening enough to take 200 test wickets let alone 500. Why do you think he has played 300 ODI's and only 30 tests?
You are mad at times.
Kaneria has played about 70 tests man, the reason he hasn't taken anywhere near 500 wickets is that he's usually very expensive and only bowls well on flat pitches
Afridi is a good ODI bowler but never threatening enough to take 200 test wickets let alone 500. Why do you think he has played 300 ODI's and only 30 tests?
You are mad at times.
If the respective bowlers had been English they would have a different mindset.
Unfortunately, you cannot really put much credence on what they have done for Pakistan because they are a corrupt shambles and in light of Kaneria being the instigator behind Westfield at Essex taking money for crap bowling, the mind wonders how much Kaneria has taken over the years in test cricket.
I appreciate there will be those naive rose tinted spectacles cricket followers on the SMB who will think Pakistan players involved in corruption is the exception not the norm
The Breen Machine
Striker
Well it seems funny that every time Kaneria has played on English or Australian wickets he seems to have taken a bribe, of course it's not that he could actually be a very one-dimensional bowler or anything could it..
Name me a decent English leg-spinner in the last 40 years?. Mushtaq was top class on our pitches but decent county spinners like Salisbury were awful at test level, our pitches aren't conducive to their development.
rentaghost
Striker
What could you see in 2007?
Kaneria is absolute class. Write in to the sky sports team next summer and ask them what they think. Cant be bothered to argue on this one, no need to, if you dont rate him fair enough.
I think certain posters are now starting to jump on the anti EB brigade and losing sight of realism in their debate which is dissapointing when it comes from someone like yourself
Nasser Hussain is often bemoaning the fact that he isnt English
Steak Pie
Striker
This is getting silly now.
I've seen him bowl (still waiting for that apology) and he's a decent spinner, but that's about it. I've said this numerous times now, and if you're not going to accept it, fine and dandy.
It's always absolutes with you, they're either class, shite or on the take. Kaneria's record is average, Afridi isn't a front line spinner and Mushy had other problems, you just cannot claim they would have posted legendary numbers if they had been English, it's just stupid to say that.
The Breen Machine
Striker
I bet Nasser isn't saying that now Swann is around.
If Kaneria is class then you need to invent new words to describe Warne, Kumble, Lance Gibbs etc.
Swann, Vettori, Harbhajan, Murali, Mendis possibly even Ajmal - all better current spinners than Kaneria who for my money is as inconsistent as they come.
Warne was the best ever. Never saw Gibbs.
Kumble was class but not at the level of Warne
Kaneria plays in a side where players are given life bans when they get walloped in Australia. Did any of the English players get life bans when they got spanked 5-0 in Australia.
As I have said its a shame that as an admirer of quality test match performers, we are deprived of the opportunity to watch some of the talent Pakistan produce due to corruption being rife in their game
The Breen Machine
Striker
You can't blame other player's disruptiveness for his own poor performance. He averages 45 against Australia, 44 against India, 77 against England and 31 against South Africa. Barring the last awful stats against good sides home and away. He simply isn't that good.
how many games he played against them since they all their star turns retired in 2007
Jimmy was averaging 70 against them before all the star turns retired as a comparison
How many home games Kaneria played in the last 3 years? Can you imagine Jimmy spending all his time on the road, we already seen he isnt to keen on the sub continent dust bowls
Pakistan play home tests in England (or did), and you were just bemoaning the lack of leggies we produce because of the pitches, you cant have it both ways make your mind up
The Breen Machine
Striker
But surely such a great bowler would do it home and away, irrespective or conditions?. He also played at least 3 tests at home to England in 05/06, and at least 2 series against Australia since 2007 when they forced to turn out Harold Bishop and Lou Carpenter due to every first-class batsman in Australia retiring.
Jimmy has a better average in India than Pakistan's premier spinner.
Who said Kaneria was great. I said he would get 500 test wickets if he had been English, that makes him very good, not great.
Kaneria will end up with more test wickets than Swann, yet Swann is perceived to be the better bowler
Dexter
Striker
At this moment in time Swann is streets ahead of Kaneria. If he ever shows some consistency then he could become a very good, reliable test bowler. Despite his 250 or so test wickets he still has an average of 35 which suggests he's never been anywhere near consistent enough.
And, at 30 years of age his time is starting to run out and he still appears to be nowhere near a return to the Pakistan setup.
Just because Swann will likely end up with less test wickets it doesn't make him an inferior bowler; especially at this moment in time.
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The Breen Machine
Striker
But who's the better bowler, the one who ends with with most wickets, or the one who has a far lower average?. Kaneria average 35 to Swann's 28.
If it's down to wickets then James Anderson is a better bowler than Colin Croft, Andy Roberts, Sydney Barnes, Mohammad Asif just for starters.
No way Kaneria would have got 500 wickets if he was English, he's struggled to 250 on sub-continent pitches.
Stuart MacGill averaged 29 in test cricket, 35 is very respectable for a leg spinner. Vettori averaged 34 and he is a well respected offie who go for less
Kaneria has 948 first class wickets @ 26.06
Swann has 577 wickets @ 31.94
If Kaneria played for England he would have taken 500 test wickets
Well for starters leg spinners go for more as a rule because they are prone to bowling more long hops as bowling leggies is such a difficult art in comparison to bowling offies.
Poor comparison with Anderson as its a different era. Swanna vs Kaneria is a good comparison because they have played in the same era and are pretty much the same age
I wonder what Swanna stats would look like if he was in the Pakistan side - dropped after every poor performance then recalled and knowing you have a clown behind the stumps who gets 50k for every dropped catch
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