Evolution suggests God does exist

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EchoMan said:
I get all that. We don’t and probably can’t understand.

And I don’t see God as a big old bloke with a long white beard.

Just that I find it hard to believe we got to where we are without some sort of external influence.
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See, I’m almost exactly the same. I also struggle to comprehend how life started, how the universe started (but not how we now have the distribution of species we see today.)

I suppose the difference between my position and yours is that by inventing some sort of “external influence” (let’s call it God for now) you are only making the question more complicated and therefore more difficult to solve. Instead, the correct answer will almost certainly be a simple one because the laws of nature are ultimately very simple. Whatever happened happened.
 
EchoMan said:
I get all that. We don’t and probably can’t understand.

And I don’t see God as a big old bloke with a long white beard.

1. Just that I find it hard to believe we got to where we are without some sort of external influence.

2. Same with the theory of infinite numbers of Monkeys with typewriters producing the works of Shakespeare. No they would not.
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1. When you say 'got to where we are', you seem priveleging the current state of the universe over other states - that seems to smuggle in the that universe had some 'goal' in producing 'us'. The universe produced us because we are the type of life that it was capable of producing, given the conditions. What if 'existence' is a brute fact, and that the universe is just a deterministic mechanism - there's no 'chance' involved.

2. This is not a genuine analogy. 'Monkeys' just means 'random typing generator', and the idea is that is if you put a 'genuinely' random (a weird concept I know, as any attempt to actively be pattern-free and non-random, would seemingly not be random) generator in a type-facility indefinitely, that the non-zero possibility of it recreating Shakespeare - and anything else - would eventually bear fruit. This is problematic though.
 
EchoMan said:
Lot of people on here confusing god and religion. Completely different IMO. Religion is man made which is a way of life for many. There are many versions, none of which I believe in.

A God like entity either exists or doesn’t and I lean towards believing in that existence because I simply can’t accept that life, the universe and everything just happened by chance. The more you study science and nature, and see the laws and patterns, the more difficult it becomes.
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Weird, I've found the complete opposite. The more I've read about quantum physics and evolution biology, the easier it has become to accept that life, the universe and everything "just" (not a word I'd include in the sentence) happened by chance.
 
Junior Birdman said:
Still can't believe he did it all in time to have Sunday off.
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Just think what He could have achieved if He'd actually put some time and effort into it instead of blasting the whole thing out in 6 days.

What a cowboy. I won't be hiring Him again.

Harry Angstrom said:
They would produce the works of Shakespeare an infinite number of times. One monkey would.
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One monkey could, if given an infinite time to achieve it. ;)

But even then, it most likely wouldn't manage it before it died, so I wouldn't bet my house on it if someone ever turned up with a newborn monkey and a typewriter and offered you the bet.
 
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fyl2u said:
One monkey could, if given an infinite time to achieve it. ;)

But even then, it most likely wouldn't manage it before it died, so I wouldn't bet my house on it if someone ever turned up with a newborn monkey and a typewriter and offered you the bet.
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I assumed monkey would be immortal and had infinity to tap away at typewriter.
 
Shakespeare was a primate. Or a few primates. But he wasn't an infinite number of primates. And he used a feather or an Apple II.
 
fyl2u said:
Weird, I've found the complete opposite. The more I've read about quantum physics and evolution biology, the easier it has become to accept that life, the universe and everything "just" (not a word I'd include in the sentence) happened by chance.
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I can see where you are coming from. That there was no external intelligent agent or being at work when the Universe emerged. There may have been a huge, possibly infinite number of attempts that had no structure and so collapsed, or maybe not. However, by chance one emerged that had sufficient structure to be stable. So why was this particular one structured in such a way that it could succeed? It would seem odd that a particular set of the laws of physics were always there just waiting for a Universe to emerge by chance that would comply with those laws? And of course that would indicate a level of design,

Something seems missing in the process although I'm not advocating God.
 
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Mercia Blackcat said:
I can see where you are coming from. That there was no external intelligent agent or being at work when the Universe emerged. There may have been a huge, possibly infinite number of attempts that had no structure and so collapsed, or maybe not. However, by chance one emerged that had sufficient structure to be stable. So why was this particular one structured in such a way that it could succeed? It would seem odd that a particular set of the laws of physics were always there just waiting for a Universe to emerge by chance that would comply with those laws? And of course that would indicate a level of design,

Something seems missing in the process although I'm not advocating God.
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I was reading a Stephen Hawking explanation of it the other day that made complete sense but no way I could remember it well enough to repeat it.

Something to with positive and negative "stuff" where matter is "positive" and there's something else that's negative and balances it out and makes it so that the whole thing is much less mysterious.

Also the bit in bold in your post, yeah it's the Anthropic Principle. We didn't just "get lucky" to be in the universe where everything's "just right". It's the only one we could have been in, because if ours were one where the physical laws were different and the universe collapsed instantly, then we wouldn't be here in it to discuss it.

The "selection" of universe, or "the turn of our universe to be the one created" if you prefer, as you say could well be only one of countless attempts, possibly even infinite attempts. They could have all happened "simultaneously" as a part of the same process that made ours appear. (I put "simultaneously" in quotes because time itself was created along with the Big Bang so whether (if) they happened one by one in linear fashion or all at once is kind of meaningless. They're both the same "before" time (or "outside time" if you prefer).
 
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