The Breen Machine
Striker
Curran to open 
Ashes Team/Thread
- Thread starter The Rat
- Start date
- Status
No it has, they all play far too many shots
I can’t people still think we’ve not been attacking enough
It’s not remotely true
We have the best lower middle order in the world
We need top order batsman who can bat hours
I think that’s pretty clear to anyone watching England over the last 4 years
It’s just utter nonsense About “taking responsibility”
The openers and 3 are specialist position
You don’t chuck the likes of Ali, Bairstow n Stokes in there
They haven’t got the technique or mindsets for it
Last edited:
Bri
Striker
Well disagreement is allowed.
But I disagree that there are only slight changes.
It's more than fielding restrictions. In fact the restrictions are meant to keep players close in otherwise they'd be sitting on the boundary and yet in Test/County cricket the norm is to have more player close (in catching positions) ironically.
It's the ball especially in England, is the rule for wides, it's the number of overs each bowler is limited to, it's the size of the field and it's playing 'time' rather than a short set of overs.
The upshot of all this is that batsmen can be much more aggressive in T20/50 over than they can be in Test/County cricket and bowlers have to adjust their tactics - they really are (nearly) different games.
The players who can best switch formats are middle-order players.
Spinners in general and especially leg-spinners do far better in limited overs cricket. (Last year Durham were playing with two spinners, sometimes three! And did really well because of it.)
Yup. For openers it's technique allied to mindset.
Last edited:
You can’t quote one 2005 series, that’s one series, you think they did that successfully in India Australia?
You think nasser’s team player like that when we won in Sri Lanka n Pakistan
Strauss’s team is the best we’ve had in modern times didn’t try n bat like that
It’s nice when it comes off but it’s not a consistent way to play test matches, the whole history of test cricket shows that to be fair
I’d argue number 3 too, especially in England when the ball moves so much more than anywhere else in the world.
I’d normally be against Roy call up but he’s so outrageously talented he has to be tried
You think nasser’s team player like that when we won in Sri Lanka n Pakistan
Strauss’s team is the best we’ve had in modern times didn’t try n bat like that
It’s nice when it comes off but it’s not a consistent way to play test matches, the whole history of test cricket shows that to be fair
I’d argue number 3 too, especially in England when the ball moves so much more than anywhere else in the world.
I’d normally be against Roy call up but he’s so outrageously talented he has to be tried
Last edited:
Salem Street South
Striker
Fair enough points mate.
Australia away I would argue we did, Cook, Strauss and Trott set the tone and Pietersen attacked. I'd say it was controlled aggression by high class players, perhaps not in the same way we went about it in 05, more tempered perhaps because we were away.
India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan are a different matter as the sub continent is a different ball game, however we won well in Sri Lanka this winter playing attacking cricket, against a side you repeatedly said were much better than everyone claimed.
The point is that 2005 was an Ashes series at home, that we won, as we will be looking to do in the upcoming one.
It was just normal test match batting like.
They were, everyone tried to devalue the win, Sri Lanka then went and won in South Africa!
I do know what I am talking about sometimes
The Breen Machine
Striker
Whilst we played attacking cricket in the 2005 Ashes, we were occasionally going at 4-4.5 an over with proper batsman who had sound defensive and attacking techniques. It wasn't in every test either, only really Edgbaston and the second innings at Old Trafford when we were trying to set a score.
Pushing up Stokes, Buttler or Bairstow just wouldn't work.
Pushing up Stokes, Buttler or Bairstow just wouldn't work.
The thing is we have tried it! with Ali too, and it didn't work
People are tlking like we haven't, its all we have been doing the last few years and it doesn't work
we need to find some genuine top order players who have the mindset of top order players
I am baffled people keep suggesting it as its been proven not to work
the only place you can it is on turning pitches in Asia, like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh because the games are short and they open with spin
Voice of fair play
Striker
Do you ever reach a point where you move better batsman up the order’?
Yeah if they are suited to it, temperament and technique wise, there is a case for Root at 3 for sure, but he is captain, our best player, so I get why he wants to bat 4 and should do IMO
The likes of Bairstow and Ali don't have the techniques to bat top 4 for England IMO
Stokes probably does but he also bowls a hell of a lot, so you can't do that.
We've tried it and it hasn't worked has it? I don't get what the big issue is, worst of all it impacted the team in other areas too.
I honestly don't think KP would ever have batted in the top 3 for England, even if Trott didn't exist
Also its like saying why didn't Prior bat in the top 3 when Strauss and Trott left? He is experienced etc
they are specialist positions thats why
Voice of fair play
Striker
What happens in theory if the top 3 in the specialist positions are shit and the other options in county cricket are even worse.
The issue is we 3 down for next to nought on a regular basis, yet the solutions seem to be to Either throw in untried or incapable people to try and solve it.
When we have other experienced and more talented players.
Last edited:
Mate, we've been trying that for 2 years and it hasn't worked
You are writing like we haven't
we've already done it!!
Voice of fair play
Striker
I know I Know
It’s just me, in sport where there is a problem I strongly believe in people stepping up rather than leaving it to rookie players to solve it, but you obviously don’t agree.
However you did right we will never agree so will leave it.
I know I Know
It’s just me, in sport where there is a problem I strongly believe in people stepping up rather than leaving it to rookie players to solve it, but you obviously don’t agree.
However you did right we will never agree so will leave it.
But thats the point, they tried to step up and couldn't do it, it didn't work. So you just keep doing it and ruin our best players as well?
You not think Ali would have a much better average for example if he wasn't constantly filling up the order in different positions?
it's also a total misconception that moving up the order is "stepping up" its not, its a specialist position, would you ask Jimmy to bowl spin? exaggeration but you get my point.
I doubt the Saffers are suddenly gonna ask De Kock to bat 3 are they
Edit:
100 for Denly yesterday at number 3
Not loads of consistent scorers this year, I reckon he will probably keep his place if can carry on some form
Roy will play if fit, but need to be looking at back up options if his hamstring is fucked
Bob Willis on the verdict was saying he thinks Morgan should have had at least 1 more go at test cricket after being dropped the first time, its a fair point that I'd never thought about, he struggled towards the end but did score 2 100s, a lot of players get dropped, but he was never considered again
The Morgan of the last 2 years would find a way to make a success of it I reckon, its never gonna happen like, just thought it was a decent point.
100 for Denly yesterday at number 3
Not loads of consistent scorers this year, I reckon he will probably keep his place if can carry on some form
Roy will play if fit, but need to be looking at back up options if his hamstring is fucked
Bob Willis on the verdict was saying he thinks Morgan should have had at least 1 more go at test cricket after being dropped the first time, its a fair point that I'd never thought about, he struggled towards the end but did score 2 100s, a lot of players get dropped, but he was never considered again
The Morgan of the last 2 years would find a way to make a success of it I reckon, its never gonna happen like, just thought it was a decent point.
Ageing trundler
Midfield
If Morgan has rediscovered the desire for test cricket, stick him in at 3. He has many excellent qualities as we know. Its a possible short-term fix.
The Breen Machine
Striker
Morgan couldn't bat 3, I think he'd be fine at number 5 but we don't need a number 5. I don't think Denly is the answer either, I still maintain that Root should bat 3 but I'm tempted to throw Dom Sibley in the mix who would be the perfect foil for Roy IMO as someone more obdurate who can anchor an innings. I think he is worth a shout at 3 with Burns and Roy opening.
SuperMarcoRowell
Central Defender
Why not, our openers have been really poor the last few years At least this combo could get us off to a flier.. who knows.
- Status
