R
Riviera
Guest
I don't believe so.
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I don't believe so.
captainfun
Central Defender
Who says there was 1000's of ticket less fans turning up at Hilsbrough? I WAS there and know first hand that it was the police/stadium control that caused the problem, not ticketless fans turning up on the chance of getting in - it was all ticket game.
I have photos (negatives were taken off me for the court case by the police) showing minute by minute what happened inside the stadium from 2.45 to 3.40 when i stopped taking pictures. It was NOT hooliganism of any sort.
I have photos (negatives were taken off me for the court case by the police) showing minute by minute what happened inside the stadium from 2.45 to 3.40 when i stopped taking pictures. It was NOT hooliganism of any sort.
dangermows
Striker
when they did that doc/drama job there was. i presumed this would have been based on fact. maybe im wrong.
S
SW-Durham Mackem
Guest
After opening the exit gates they ushered fans towards the central pen IIRC, which was already really over crowded. :-(
R
Riviera
Guest
How could you possibly know whether there were fans without tickets or not? I also know people who were there, from Nottingham, who say the complete opposite.
captainfun
Central Defender
Dangermows - you are 100% correct - the pen to the right(looking from the pitch) was empty - as you went thru the turnstile in the leppings lane end - all you saw was the middle pen - there were no signs to go to the right or left - so everyone headed that way once entering the ground
R
Riviera
Guest
'captainfun' can tell us, he was there.
Cheesy Feet
Striker
Been reading this post all the way through,it's a tricky one but at the end of the day this tragedy had nothing to do with hooligans/hooliganism at all,like an earlier poster said,if you were in the same position let's say next year FA Cup semi final,you've no ticket you're outside,suddenly the gates in front of you open,what would you do,be honest 
captainfun
Central Defender
How would people from nottingham know there were 1000's from Liverpool without tickets?
I lived in Liverpool at the time and lived with the aftermath at at no point was there mentions of 1000's of ticketless fans causing the problem. Supporters turned up late as there were major problems on the motorway from the north west to yorkshire and those supporters travelling that route arrived late thus causing a backlog in that narrow street leading to the turnstiles, you have to remember that the lepping lane turnstiles also were the gates for the stand opposite the main stand (2nd largest stand at that time at Hilsbrough!)
I lived in Liverpool at the time and lived with the aftermath at at no point was there mentions of 1000's of ticketless fans causing the problem. Supporters turned up late as there were major problems on the motorway from the north west to yorkshire and those supporters travelling that route arrived late thus causing a backlog in that narrow street leading to the turnstiles, you have to remember that the lepping lane turnstiles also were the gates for the stand opposite the main stand (2nd largest stand at that time at Hilsbrough!)
R
Riviera
Guest
If you lived in Liverpool you'd know that a culture existed, due in some part to European ventures, of 'jibbing into grounds' and mass thieving ......... various Liverpool fans have boasted on websites, such as this, that they went to grounds without tickets and used weight of numbers to gain entry.
S
SW-Durham Mackem
Guest
Disaster waiting to happen. There were a few things that conspired that day and hooliganism wasn't one of them imo.
R
Riviera
Guest
You can call it hooliganism, irresponsibilty, high spirits or whatever but the Liverpool fans weren't without any blame which is usually claimed.
I'm not saying we haven't behaved in a similar fashion, and actually said so, but to put all of the blame onto anyone but the Liverpool fans is slightly skewed in my opinion.
Cheesy Feet
Striker
You could go on all night,blame,Liverpool fans for rushing into the ground,Hillsborough officials for opening the gates to the ground,the Police for allowing fans without tickets to approach the turnstiles,at the end of the day 96 people died at a football match.
S
SW-Durham Mackem
Guest
I know mate, i realise mistakes were made on all sides.
Its just whenever this topic of hooligans pops up, nearly everytime someone mentions Hillsborough. Its as though 100's of violent yobs turned up, started besieging the away end and tried to break in, and i know that wasnt the case... most of them were looking to watch their team and didn't realise the consequences.
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oothefuknellsleeds
Guest
Been reading this post all the way through,it's a tricky one but at the end of the day this tragedy had nothing to do with hooligans/hooliganism at all,like an earlier poster said,if you were in the same position let's say next year FA Cup semi final,you've no ticket you're outside,suddenly the gates in front of you open,what would you do,be honest
id be in like a shot. for any game really
it was a fuck up from start to finish and it could easily have been us, nothing to do with hooliganism or Liverpool
the stadium's safety cert was 10 years out of date
the signage / crowd management was appalling
the map on the back of the tickets was wrong
the fuckwits who opened the gates and tried to blame fans for kicking it in
the gates in the front fence not being wide enough
and was anyone brought to task ? were they fuck
scallyban
Midfield
Read the Taylor report and then re-read that load of shite you have put. Ticketles fans was dismissed and it has been judged that there was the correct number of Liverpool fans in the ground but they majority were in the same pen while the side ones stood virtually empty. Crashes on the motorway forced the large number of late arrivals and these people obviously thought they would miss the kick off.
Hillsborough was a huge police cock up on a number of different levels. Anyone who thinks otherwise is uneducated on the subject and should read up the numerous reports before coming out with their own reasons and prejudging the situation on those nasty scousers.
R
Riviera
Guest
I agree with all of the things you say, because it's all true.
However, I've witnessed the behaviour of mobs in general and Sunderland I particular. I was at Cardiff, York & Chelsea and know the power that a mob can exert over a few poorly trained stewards and the police. It was yobbish behaviour and through good fortune it didn't result in any great problems.
We knew it was yobbish behaviour but we felt we were justified, because of the poor organisation, and it was slightly funny that we could impose our will on the authorities.
Liverpool fans, in those days, had a dangerous culture of 'mob rule' and that was particularly bad at away games in Europe. Mobbing shops, to steal clothing etc, and gaining illegal entry into grounds was openly boasted about.
Because of that, and other aspects of the day at Hillsborough, it's hard to believe that there wasn't any yobbish behaviour. Whether you class that as hooliganism is open to debate.
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scallyban
Midfield
No argument on Athens. I was there witnessed it first hand and the behaviour of some fans was nothing short of disgraceful.
Again there were lots of other factors including the 'check points'. You could just wave anything and it worked. Also the way the club distributed the tickets was out of order and due to the ridiculous allocation thousands missed out. Forgeries were rife and many people chanced it.
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