Whose fault is it that so many supporters are falling out of love with the club?

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Another reason could be cost. £30 for pay at the gate for championship football, when it was £25 last year.
 


Bangkok Blackcat said:
I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
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That's a great post. It articulates much of the way I feel. I yearn for the old times (but they weren't that long ago actually), the 80s and 90s, Roker Park, standing at the match, the sense of community.

I've fallen out of love with football as much as I have with Sunderland. Neither the club, nor the game is the same as the one I grew up loving. The game targets a different demographic of supporter these days. Its corporate, its liberal, its worldwide, every program has to have a woman on it giving her "expert" view (LOL). The media only cares about the top 6 clubs, the foreign "fan" is more important to their business model than the fan in the inner city supporting his local club. Money through the turnstiles (and I don't mean the corporate turnstiles) is insignificant next to what the clubs make from worldwide marketing, global TV rights and selling boxes to faceless corporate bangwagon jumpers. We (the working class fan) don't matter any more. Ironically, we have become excluded while the liberal bandwagon seeks to become more inclusive. Its an absolute disgrace. Clubs these days don't want people at the grounds who drink elsewhere, stand and shout and swear. We aren't welcome. We are not required.

You are right, the soul of the club has died, its not what it was. The Stadium of Light has become a soulless dated, hovel only 20 years after we moved into it claiming this was a stadium for the next 100 years. Its been run down into a far worse state than Roker Park ever was.

This club is dead. Where do we go from here?
 
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viccarlton said:
Think you've got it about right there marra, you can't fault fans for being p!ssed off in our current downward spiral, but I feel an awful lot of it is down to expectation levels, yes our current position is shocking and disgraceful and the fans deserve better but in our Premier League years I feel too many people expected us to chase the dream, a dream that was clearly unattainable and now we're back down to earth with a bump, the fans don't like it (understandably) and have voted with their feet.
PS All the fault clearly lies with Ellis Short.
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At what point did we chase the dream? We had a few very good seasons under Reid but that was an absolute age ago. We've had the cup final and that's been about it. The dream changed 5 years ago to getting a solid squad together and investing in quality. We didn't.
 
As an 'outsider' I fell in love with the club through my affinity with the area and the people. Sunderland AFC was a manifestation of this. First game I went to, as cliche as this might sound, it just felt right. The accents around me might have have been different from my own but I felt very much at home. I still look forward to my visits to the town but it really does feel like something is missing when I'm at the ground on match days. In my humble opinion, a connection between the club and the community has been lost in recent years. The elements from my upbringing that make me feel so at home in Sunderland. Work hard, value your family, hospitable, appreciate honesty and openness in others. These are all things that have been distinctly absent in the boardroom and on the pitch of our club.
 
Adamoah said:
It is the Short regime coupled with the direction that football is going in.
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This for me.

Personally started losing a bit of losing interest quite a while ago. Too much money being thrown at it by sky to the benefit of the top teams, too many stupid kick off times, clubs overcharging fans whenever possible.

I've got a season card this year but ive been pushed to my limit.
 
JumpingAnaconda said:
I think the fundamental problem is the Premier League. Sides that had enough success at its start managed to keep afloat and maintain dominance. Pretty much every other major side that was in the top flight has completely crumbled under the financial pressure of trying to keep up. You can not make sensible decisions about finance when you are forced to spend over what you can realistically get in income in order to try and get a toehold on the big money. If there are 40 or so clubs making financial commitments that are dependent on long term top end of the Premier League levels of success to balance the books, you are going to end up with the majority of sides have serious problems.

If you look at the first Premier League league table, you have tonnes of examples of sides that have tried to keep up with the Premier levels of spending in the vain hope of getting stability, both in performances and in finances, and ended up having long periods greatly diminished as a club. From that first season Aston Villa, Norwich, Blackburn, QPR, Sheffield Wednesday, Wimbledon (arguably a few more reasons with them!), Sheffield United, Ipswich, Leeds, Middlesborough and Forest have all gone through that process of overspending at a level dependent of top level success in order to survive, and they have all crumbled. In the case of Blackburn and Leeds they actually had the top level success, and they still eventually succumbed to the reality of the spending levels they needed to achieve that eventually crushing them. The guts were ripped out of football when these sides were reduced to limping along in the lower division.

The Premier League introduced the concept where finishing in the bottom half of the league could be a financial disaster. The Premier League introduced the concept where finishing outside of winning the league could be a sackable offence. The Premier League made the stakes so high that eventually the exciting football we saw in early years was replaced by dreary play-it-safe, stop the other side playing style football championed by the likes of Mourino. The Premier League cemented certain sides at the top of the table. The Premier League destroyed top flight football in the Midlands and reduced football in the North East to one favoured team. The Premier League brought a huge bias to teams from Liverpool, Manchester and London, yet crushed all of the slightly less fashionable teams in those areas, like Tranmere and Orient. The Premier League saw the top sides bankrolled by oligarchs in order to achieve dominance. The Premier League saw players brought in just to stop them being in other sides in other leagues in Europe, and has resulted in making most European leagues rubbish. The Premier League saw ticket prices go through the roof, merchandising going into overdrive, it started the trend of moving sport away from free-to-air, it saw football brands seriously start to overtake local football loyalties and allegiances.

For all of the exciting football it brought in the first few years, the Premier League has been disaster for the game. Football is now a whore to corporate bodies that milk it for all it is worth and do not give a monkey's that the 'product' is woeful over marketed tripe.
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All rise and give this poster the standing ovation this post deserves outstanding post !
 
JumpingAnaconda said:
I think the fundamental problem is the Premier League. Sides that had enough success at its start managed to keep afloat and maintain dominance. Pretty much every other major side that was in the top flight has completely crumbled under the financial pressure of trying to keep up. You can not make sensible decisions about finance when you are forced to spend over what you can realistically get in income in order to try and get a toehold on the big money. If there are 40 or so clubs making financial commitments that are dependent on long term top end of the Premier League levels of success to balance the books, you are going to end up with the majority of sides have serious problems.

If you look at the first Premier League league table, you have tonnes of examples of sides that have tried to keep up with the Premier levels of spending in the vain hope of getting stability, both in performances and in finances, and ended up having long periods greatly diminished as a club. From that first season Aston Villa, Norwich, Blackburn, QPR, Sheffield Wednesday, Wimbledon (arguably a few more reasons with them!), Sheffield United, Ipswich, Leeds, Middlesborough and Forest have all gone through that process of overspending at a level dependent of top level success in order to survive, and they have all crumbled. In the case of Blackburn and Leeds they actually had the top level success, and they still eventually succumbed to the reality of the spending levels they needed to achieve that eventually crushing them. The guts were ripped out of football when these sides were reduced to limping along in the lower division.

The Premier League introduced the concept where finishing in the bottom half of the league could be a financial disaster. The Premier League introduced the concept where finishing outside of winning the league could be a sackable offence. The Premier League made the stakes so high that eventually the exciting football we saw in early years was replaced by dreary play-it-safe, stop the other side playing style football championed by the likes of Mourino. The Premier League cemented certain sides at the top of the table. The Premier League destroyed top flight football in the Midlands and reduced football in the North East to one favoured team. The Premier League brought a huge bias to teams from Liverpool, Manchester and London, yet crushed all of the slightly less fashionable teams in those areas, like Tranmere and Orient. The Premier League saw the top sides bankrolled by oligarchs in order to achieve dominance. The Premier League saw players brought in just to stop them being in other sides in other leagues in Europe, and has resulted in making most European leagues rubbish. The Premier League saw ticket prices go through the roof, merchandising going into overdrive, it started the trend of moving sport away from free-to-air, it saw football brands seriously start to overtake local football loyalties and allegiances.

For all of the exciting football it brought in the first few years, the Premier League has been disaster for the game. Football is now a whore to corporate bodies that milk it for all it is worth and do not give a monkey's that the 'product' is woeful over marketed tripe.
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most of this is overlooked by the younger supporters, those of us who remember standing on the steps in the rain on a cold winters night under the lights can see the 'damage' done, all seater stadiums have killed a lot of the atmosphere, which to the working man, was a way of getting rid of the tensions of the past 5 days, now we sit and stare wondering where it all went wrong with billionaires buying into the game and producing the 'elite' while the rest of us scrap along for survival.

when these money men have no idea about football, then the inevitable will follow.
 
Bangkok Blackcat said:
I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
Click to expand...
10 seasons of shit football have been enough to put a lot of people off I really cant blame them you have to have a snall bit of you that believes the team can win to maje ut worthwhile to turn up.
 
Sam Handwich said:
You state that the community and heritage aspect of the relationship between club and supporter as being very important and use Naill Quinn as an example. Have you stopped to think why Quinn isn't here anymore. There you will find your answer.
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True, but I recall a lot of people here thinking he needed to go, and a more professional chairman at the helm.
 
Mackem Al said:
That's a great post. It articulates much of the way I feel. I yearn for the old times (but they weren't that long ago actually), the 80s and 90s, Roker Park, standing at the match, the sense of community.

I've fallen out of love with football as much as I have with Sunderland. Neither the club, nor the game is the same as the one I grew up loving. The game targets a different demographic of supporter these days. Its corporate, its liberal, its worldwide, every program has to have a woman on it giving her "expert" view (LOL). The media only cares about the top 6 clubs, the foreign "fan" is more important to their business model than the fan in the inner city supporting his local club. Money through the turnstiles (and I don't mean the corporate turnstiles) is insignificant next to what the clubs make from worldwide marketing, global TV rights and selling boxes to faceless corporate bangwagon jumpers. We (the working class fan) don't matter any more. Ironically, we have become excluded while the liberal bandwagon seeks to become more inclusive. Its an absolute disgrace. Clubs these days don't want people at the grounds who drink elsewhere, stand and shout and swear. We aren't welcome. We are not required.

You are right, the soul of the club has died, its not what it was. The Stadium of Light has become a soulless dated, hovel only 20 years after we moved into it claiming this was a stadium for the next 100 years. Its been run down into a far worse state than Roker Park ever was.

This club is dead. Where do we go from here?
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Pretty brutal assessment matey and spot on with it.

Dagzd1973 said:
It's the players' fault. Ellis and the managers have to take some of the blame but it ultimately lies with the players. They're shite. Pep Guardiola couldn't get this team winning.
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End of the day it comes down to Ellis Short. He has never had a clear vision of how he wanted us to operate, instead relying on people who ultimately had no idea about football at all. The De Fanti and the Dof fiasco was the beginning of the end for us in my opinion, so many players brought in who were not good enough for League 1 never mind the Premier League. The fact they tried to copy some poxy Udinese model and pretty much discard anything else means they have pretty much nearly destroyed this club.
 
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stephen cartwright said:
I used a tank top for one post, but this is a very accurate description of the situation.

I think I was extremely lucky to be around in the 70s watching safc. Of course we played badly at times but I felt a connection with lads like the 73 team and the Rowell arnott and Elliott era.

Will it ever be like that again for the young fans these days? Please God let it be so.
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Especially them, as six of them came through our youth team (four of them were north east lads too) - can you imagine that scenario ever happening again (I mean home-grown players in the team, not winning the Cup!)? I guess it could happen later this season if Short sells anything that moves in January!
 
Bangkok Blackcat said:
I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
Click to expand...

It's Ellis Short's fault. Yes I agree with much of your post but, although we can all dislike the premier league and the big business side of it, the fact is very few are really put off by it when their club is doing well. When we got to the league cup final I was buzzing, I wasn't bothered about the disconnect between club and city. Every time we beat the mags I was as happy as I've ever been watching football. When Leicester won the league I doubt many of their fans were complaining about modern football. We can dislike aspects of it but ultimately people complain about it a lot more when their team is shit. If we were mint we wouldn't care, so I'm blaming the bloke who has led to us being shit, Short.
 
Bangkok Blackcat said:
I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
Click to expand...

The question is, when the club is sold....will the people who's fallen out of love with safc, return in their droves??? If 90% blame short, once he goes shouldnt that be enough to bring everyone back??? Since he's the reason people have gone???
 
It’s football in general. I have little interest in international matches, used to watch any football on the telly and now can’t be arsed with it. My only real interest in football these days is SAFC and that’s waning thanks to the likes of Short, Bain, Moyes, Kone, van Aanholt etc. It’s all about commercialism and money these days.

That’s why people are craving the likes of Keane and Reid. They represent days when football and footballers had some pride in the team they represented and self respect for the performance they turned in. Kone is “ill” and Rodwell gets paid a king’s ransom but is scared to play in midfield.

Money has ruined football.
 
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