Whose fault is it that so many supporters are falling out of love with the club?

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Bangkok Blackcat

Bangkok Blackcat

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I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
 


Bangkok Blackcat said:
I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
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The entire debacle stems from Shorts complete mismanagement....

15 and 19 point relegations didnt detach the club from the fans and had their been investment on a level that suggests that he was going to give the manager a fighting chance to compete this season.

Instead he made it quite clear he was finished with the club, he sold every saleable asset and only retained players like Ndong and Kone because nobody bid for them but they were being actively touted about... He then gave the manager a budget that largely just allowed for fulfilling its fixtures rather than competing, the fact the manager got some half decent players was a testament to his wheeling and dealing.

Im not sure how you could look at this clusterfuck and blame anybody but the owner, we have been on an increasingly rapid decline over the vast majority of his tenure....If this was any other major business the CEO would be gone as he is ultimately responsible.

I do think the recruitment of a predominantly British/Irish squad will help reconnect the club with the fans. Im not sure there has ever been a connection with many of the foreign players we have had (largely as many have been proven to have little understanding of the club and fans and have pretty much turned up for the pay cheque and bail out at the first opportunity).
 
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Bangkok Blackcat said:
I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
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I used a tank top for one post, but this is a very accurate description of the situation.

I think I was extremely lucky to be around in the 70s watching safc. Of course we played badly at times but I felt a connection with lads like the 73 team and the Rowell arnott and Elliott era.

Will it ever be like that again for the young fans these days? Please God let it be so.
 
Bangkok Blackcat said:
I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
Click to expand...
Think you've got it about right there marra, you can't fault fans for being p!ssed off in our current downward spiral, but I feel an awful lot of it is down to expectation levels, yes our current position is shocking and disgraceful and the fans deserve better but in our Premier League years I feel too many people expected us to chase the dream, a dream that was clearly unattainable and now we're back down to earth with a bump, the fans don't like it (understandably) and have voted with their feet.
PS All the fault clearly lies with Ellis Short.
 
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Bangkok Blackcat said:
I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
Click to expand...
Probably because they are enjoying the most succesful times in a lot of their supporters lifetimes.
Fans are fed up because we have been absolutely pathetic on the pitch for well over a year, we are shite on the pitch mostly due to how badly we've been ran.
Fans would soon get back onside if we won a few games though.
 
For me it's been the years of underperforming when I know and remember when we get things right at this club, we can be one of the best in the country, short and his minions are symptoms of the over all disease, but the events of the last 3 years have made me see that maybe the shine isn't their now and football is seedy In the players world, what went on in march of last year didn't help matters at all, and to be honest relegation is another kick in the teeth it highlights how just with a little planning and foresight what we could of become, well that's my feelings on the subject
 
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Bagpuss said:
The entire debacle stems from Shorts complete mismanagement....

15 and 19 point relegations didnt detach the club from the fans and had their been investment on a level that suggests that he was going to give the manager a fighting chance to compete this season.

Instead he made it quite clear he was finished with the club, he sold every saleable asset and only retained players like Ndong and Kone because nobody bid for them but they were being actively touted about... He then gave the manager a budget that largely just allowed for fulfilling its fixtures rather than competing, the fact the manager got some half decent players was a testament to his wheeling and dealing.

Im not sure how you could look at this clusterfuck and blame anybody but the owner, we have been on an increasingly rapid decline over the vast majority of his tenure....If this was any other major business the CEO would be gone as he is ultimately responsible.
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Of course you are correct, but you also won't accept the players and manager have done nothing wrong and last night, you stated all the booing is affecting the team and would be happy with an empty stadium.

Your above point re short, I fully accept, but he doesn't miss kick the ball and let soft goals in
 
stephen cartwright said:
Of course you are correct, but you also won't accept the players and manager have done nothing wrong and last night, you stated all the booing is affecting the team and would be happy with an empty stadium.

Your above point re short, I fully accept, but he doesn't miss kick the ball and let soft goals in
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I didnt say the players and management had not done anything wrong at all. My argument is that people are booing and abusing average players for being average players. Grayson has made mistakes for sure but lets not for one second suggest that we are where we are because of a few tactical errors. We are where we are because of systemic failures in virtually every part of this football club over a period of nearly a decade.

The seeds of the current debacle were ironically sown the last time we were promoted having spent big on average players on fat long contracts that we then couldnt get rid of and which undermined our future recruitment and success from that point onwards.
 
So many supporters are falling out of love with the club as a direct result of the shameful and incompetent management of the club's affairs since Ellis Short became the owner. There's no optimism,only dejection,there's no pride,only shame,there's no hope,only despair,there's no fun,only fear. The toxicity runs throughout the club from top to bottom and has spread like a virulent disease to the support. That is Ellis Short's legacy.
 
Ellis Short.

Since he came in we have had little to zero communication with an American Billionaire who owns OUR football club in the North East of England.

Things started off fairly promising but even then they have never been great, Our spell under Bruce was the best in a long while but even then that tailed off and went pear shaped.

The last few years have been an absolute disaster, mistake after mistake and we, as the fans, are the ones who get punished despite being the only good thing about the football club.

I don't think Ellis Short has done anything to please the fans in the past 6 years now. He can't even stump up the cash to replace all of the pink seats with new ones, It pretty much sums Sunderland AFC up under his ownership. A damning indictment of how this club operates, everything is done in a half arsed attempt at change yet somehow ends up looking worse in everything they do.

He's now went full circle from spending money on the wrong types of players to just not spending anything at all and it will take a long time to overcome this damage.

The bloke is a complete arse and that's not even in relation to how much money he may, or may not have put into the club.

He's sucked the footballing soul out of the entire city to the point we are a national laughing stock. We will still be fed the same PR rubbish though that he continues to support the structure of the football club despite people forgetting he should, its HIS business and its STILL nowhere near enough. He has given up and it has filtered all the way through the spine of the club.
 
From the off Short has got things wrong;

Forcing Keane to resign as he wouldn't move to the area (but not letting this get in the way of MoN)
Letting Quinn walk away & leaving the boardroom bereft of football men
Hiring Milliband & then a fully paid up fascist to be the manager
Hiring a CEO who hadn't the first clue as to how a business runs, let alone a football club
Hiring and firing various managers all with different views as to how the game should be played
Deciding on a policy whereby 4th bottom each season was a success

Pretty sure you get my drift. In his ten years at the club has he got any major decision right?
 
Had my nostalgic head on this morning crossing the Wearmouth Bridge after an appointment in Dame Dorothy street of Tenicks fame. Looking down where the yards used to be and remembering when some of the workers used to turn up at a match with their bait bags and work gear after a Saturday half shift and how the miners used to come in from the villages in their bus load. Yes Roker Park did seem the centre of Sunderland them days.
 
zebediah said:
Yes they did, it was only successful seasons in the second flight that brought them back.

Make a push for promotion this season (I know) and they will again.
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I look round that team and see a squad capable of promotion. They will never be a great team but there is enough in there to compete with any team in the division imho. If we can get them all fit and finally decide upon a system and stick with it then we will turn the corner and win a lot of games this season imho.

My biggest worry is at the back but we have more going forward than we have had for a long long time imho. Maja was on fire pre season, will be interesting to see how he plays alongside the better creative players we have brought in......Sticking Williams in centre mid as a creative force alongside Ndong would be a massive help, not sure two holding midfielders was ever going to work but in recent weeks there has been little option due to injuiries/illness and the fact Rodwell has decided he is mentally and physically shot.
 
sad-eyed prophet said:
So many supporters are falling out of love with the club as a direct result of the shameful and incompetent management of the club's affairs since Ellis Short became the owner. There's no optimism,only dejection,there's no pride,only shame,there's no hope,only despair,there's no fun,only fear. The toxicity runs throughout the club from top to bottom and has spread like a virulent disease to the support. That is Ellis Short's legacy.
Click to expand...

No one sane can argue with this, its all true every word. Hopes and dreams have been killed
 
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