Whose fault is it that so many supporters are falling out of love with the club?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Fats said:
From the off Short has got things wrong;

Forcing Keane to resign as he wouldn't move to the area (but not letting this get in the way of MoN)
Letting Quinn walk away & leaving the boardroom bereft of football men
Hiring Milliband & then a fully paid up fascist to be the manager
Hiring a CEO who hadn't the first clue as to how a business runs, let alone a football club
Hiring and firing various managers all with different views as to how the game should be played
Deciding on a policy whereby 4th bottom each season was a success

Pretty sure you get my drift. In his ten years at the club has he got any major decision right?
Click to expand...
I'd complaintly erased that, what the fuck was that all about.:lol:
 


Bangkok Blackcat said:
I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
Click to expand...
1. Ellis Short - mistake after mistake, putting the wrong people in charge of the club, forcing Quinny out, letting the wrong people spend money on the wrong players
2. David Moyes - quickly realised he'd made a massive mistake joining and should have quit there and then. Instead he let his negativity flow through the club to the point where it was blatantly obvious that 90% of the players weren't playing for him and it was clear he was counting the days until he left.
3. Simon Grayson - has carried on Moyes' bad work - it's clear he does want to be here but he's doing a terrible, terrible job

In that order
 
stephen cartwright said:
Of course you are correct, but you also won't accept the players and manager have done nothing wrong and last night, you stated all the booing is affecting the team and would be happy with an empty stadium.

Your above point re short, I fully accept, but he doesn't miss kick the ball and let soft goals in
Click to expand...


You're right of course,but if the atmosphere at the club was one of excellence rather than average and the ethos was success rather than abject failure, maybe that would spill onto the pitch and there wouldn't be as many mis-kicks and soft goals. Maybe the players would have a will to do better rather than the shrugging of the shoulders we get now. I'm not a fan of these players,but there's a sickness pervading the club to which they're not immune.
 
Fats said:
From the off Short has got things wrong;

Forcing Keane to resign as he wouldn't move to the area (but not letting this get in the way of MoN)
Letting Quinn walk away & leaving the boardroom bereft of football men
Hiring Milliband & then a fully paid up fascist to be the manager
Hiring a CEO who hadn't the first clue as to how a business runs, let alone a football club
Hiring and firing various managers all with different views as to how the game should be played
Deciding on a policy whereby 4th bottom each season was a success

Pretty sure you get my drift. In his ten years at the club has he got any major decision right?
Click to expand...
Hard to agrue with any of that. I think Keane would always have walked away eventually to be honest and was heading that way with results anyway......
 
sproates33 said:
Ellis Short.

Since he came in we have had little to zero communication with an American Billionaire who owns OUR football club in the North East of England.

Things started off fairly promising but even then they have never been great, Our spell under Bruce was the best in a long while but even then that tailed off and went pear shaped.

The last few years have been an absolute disaster, mistake after mistake and we, as the fans, are the ones who get punished despite being the only good thing about the football club.

I don't think Ellis Short has done anything to please the fans in the past 6 years now. He can't even stump up the cash to replace all of the pink seats with new ones, It pretty much sums Sunderland AFC up under his ownership. A damning indictment of how this club operates, everything is done in a half arsed attempt at change yet somehow ends up looking worse in everything they do.

He's now went full circle from spending money on the wrong types of players to just not spending anything at all and it will take a long time to overcome this damage.

The bloke is a complete arse and that's not even in relation to how much money he may, or may not have put into the club.

He's sucked the footballing soul out of the entire city to the point we are a national laughing stock. We will still be fed the same PR rubbish though that he continues to support the structure of the football club despite people forgetting he should, its HIS business and its STILL nowhere near enough. He has given up and it has filtered all the way through the spine of the club.
Click to expand...


100% this, who on earth deliberately cash starves and runs down their own business, the only time you see this happens is when they have accepted that business is largely fucked and you are about to walk away...Problem with this clown is he still has delusions that he will be getting a fortune for the business he has now destroyed.
 
Bagpuss said:
I look round that team and see a squad capable of promotion. They will never be a great team but there is enough in there to compete with any team in the division imho. If we can get them all fit and finally decide upon a system and stick with it then we will turn the corner and win a lot of games this season imho.

My biggest worry is at the back but we have more going forward than we have had for a long long time imho. Maja was on fire pre season, will be interesting to see how he plays alongside the better creative players we have brought in......Sticking Williams in centre mid as a creative force alongside Ndong would be a massive help, not sure two holding midfielders was ever going to work but in recent weeks there has been little option due to injuiries/illness and the fact Rodwell has decided he is mentally and physically shot.
Click to expand...

Even a crap defence that is well drilled with each player knowing their job can make a decent fist of it.
Too many times we have defenders looking like they were signed 5 minutes before kick off.
 
As it stands, I blame a few people:

Short - Mismanaged the club, hired and taken advice from people only interested in lining their pockets. Considering we have had DOF roles, the player recruitment as been an utter shambles

Moyes - He must have been one shocking manager. Firstly, the players from when Sam left to a few games of him being in charge, they looked dreadful. What he has done to them, I dont know but Moyes should have all his coaching badges removed and struck off. The effect still seems to be there now

Players - You have to remember, under Allardyce the Spine of Kone, Cattermole and Defoe looked really promising with Khazri looking a bargain. Then they stopped trying for what ever reason. I am sorry but between Kone, Cattermole, McGeady, Oviedo and Grabban that is a core of players that should not be where we are. Why are we where we are? On paper our starting 11 is above mid table perhaps play off, not second bottom. If the players are protesting nover another manager and his views and regimes and then put them all up for sale and we start again!!!!
 
Season after season after season of seeing utter shit on the pitch? False promises, shocking decision making, breaking every bad stat ever created. Just had enough - there are far more better things to do on a weekend than waste your money on people like f***ing Jack Rodwell and Billy Jones.
 
zebediah said:
Even a crap defence that is well drilled with each player knowing their job can make a decent fist of it.
Too many times we have defenders looking like they were signed 5 minutes before kick off.
Click to expand...

The defence has been chopped and changed week in week out due to injuries though. Not only that but the midfielders infront of the back four (left and right side) have been changed every game too so there is no consistency or a chance for them to develop an understanding of how each other attacks and defends. This is what happens when you leave most of your recruitment till deadline day.
 
I know Short is mainly responsible for the way things are at Sunderland but I was looking at football in general when I said he was a symptom not a cause. As it stands I would rather be taken over by someone local who gets the club rather than some foreign concern, no matter how wealthy. We might not be as successful but we would become Sunderland again.
 
You state that the community and heritage aspect of the relationship between club and supporter as being very important and use Naill Quinn as an example. Have you stopped to think why Quinn isn't here anymore. There you will find your answer.
 
Bangkok Blackcat said:
I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
Click to expand...

I think the fundamental problem is the Premier League. Sides that had enough success at its start managed to keep afloat and maintain dominance. Pretty much every other major side that was in the top flight has completely crumbled under the financial pressure of trying to keep up. You can not make sensible decisions about finance when you are forced to spend over what you can realistically get in income in order to try and get a toehold on the big money. If there are 40 or so clubs making financial commitments that are dependent on long term top end of the Premier League levels of success to balance the books, you are going to end up with the majority of sides have serious problems.

If you look at the first Premier League league table, you have tonnes of examples of sides that have tried to keep up with the Premier levels of spending in the vain hope of getting stability, both in performances and in finances, and ended up having long periods greatly diminished as a club. From that first season Aston Villa, Norwich, Blackburn, QPR, Sheffield Wednesday, Wimbledon (arguably a few more reasons with them!), Sheffield United, Ipswich, Leeds, Middlesborough and Forest have all gone through that process of overspending at a level dependent of top level success in order to survive, and they have all crumbled. In the case of Blackburn and Leeds they actually had the top level success, and they still eventually succumbed to the reality of the spending levels they needed to achieve that eventually crushing them. The guts were ripped out of football when these sides were reduced to limping along in the lower division.

The Premier League introduced the concept where finishing in the bottom half of the league could be a financial disaster. The Premier League introduced the concept where finishing outside of winning the league could be a sackable offence. The Premier League made the stakes so high that eventually the exciting football we saw in early years was replaced by dreary play-it-safe, stop the other side playing style football championed by the likes of Mourino. The Premier League cemented certain sides at the top of the table. The Premier League destroyed top flight football in the Midlands and reduced football in the North East to one favoured team. The Premier League brought a huge bias to teams from Liverpool, Manchester and London, yet crushed all of the slightly less fashionable teams in those areas, like Tranmere and Orient. The Premier League saw the top sides bankrolled by oligarchs in order to achieve dominance. The Premier League saw players brought in just to stop them being in other sides in other leagues in Europe, and has resulted in making most European leagues rubbish. The Premier League saw ticket prices go through the roof, merchandising going into overdrive, it started the trend of moving sport away from free-to-air, it saw football brands seriously start to overtake local football loyalties and allegiances.

For all of the exciting football it brought in the first few years, the Premier League has been disaster for the game. Football is now a whore to corporate bodies that milk it for all it is worth and do not give a monkey's that the 'product' is woeful over marketed tripe.
 
We should have been moving forwards and not backwards with the stadium we have as well as the academy. We've got a big fan base which was quoted as being top 6 in the Prem I believe yet we have done very badly over the years.

You have to blame Ellis Short for this, instead of buying players with quality in the Prem we have settled for players that are just not good enough. All of these transfer fees have caught up with us for buying shite, instead of giving small budgets over the years he should have paid out from the beginning to buy quality, at least they'd have a chance to turn it around if there was a dip in form. The current lot we have are useless.

Short had no idea about football and thought we could do it all on shoe string budgets. He is finding out now that is not possible, even more so with inflated prices we see today for players. Unfortunately we all suffer for his mistakes and will take years to get out of it.
 
Bangkok Blackcat said:
I see an awful lot of posts these days from supporters saying they no longer love the club and there is a tendency to put the blame at Ellis Short's door. However, I don't see Short as the cause of the malaise, I think he's more a symptom.

For those of us who are over 35 we can remember when clubs were part of the community, even at the start of the Premier League there was still a desire for teams to remain part of their areas heritage (Look at the success of Hall's Geordie Nation Campaign and Niall Quinn's love affair with us for proof of this.)

But as the Premier League became more popular worldwide, the local community's hold on football clubs lessened and this led to the lack of bonding between the bigger clubs and the local area. The biggest clubs could cope with this by being successful. Success will always bring support, but traditional clubs like Sunderland and Villa who, to be blunt, sold out in the pursuit of success, lost their soul.

Burnley are still a local club and they are succeeding because as they are part of their community even when things don't go well, there is not the bitterness towards the club that I see on here.

I know some posters will mock me for being a jumpers for goalposts nostalgia lover, but in many respects, I miss the old days.
Click to expand...


We were close when bruce flogged bent, cana etc.

Just saying
 
mick8970 said:
It’s massively Ellis Shorts fault why were in this position.
Click to expand...
Short because he does not care anymore
His yes man Greyson who is clueless in all aspects of management
The shit players who he has signed and the crap he has been left with who could not give a toss.
Three reasonable reasons on their own.................but put them all together................................
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top