When do we start talking about Jos Buttler?

rentaghost said:
Good post and I agree with that. It is right that his place should have been a point of debate until recently but the 'take the piss' type criticism on here as if Jos was a comical joke type figure from the like of Steak, Chunky, The Rey, Breen Machine was always wrong and out of order IMO ( i don't really count the Travelling guy in this as he doesn't really have the same level of cricket understanding as the others). Anyway regarding the future he has plenty of experience in India albeit in the shorter format and his much improved batting form will see him play and rightly so. I think It wont even be a point of debate amongst people outside of message boards. Comparing with players from the past doesn't really count for much as selection can only be made against current competition but some people do see past players through rose tinted glasses.

Alec Stewart is looked back on as a great. Reading Alec Stewart's book where he talks about going through a desperate period with the gloves where commentators such as Ian Botham were suggesting 'his eyes have gone.' Stewart would have been panned on this board back then and his average while keeping wicket was 34 broadly the same as Buttlers. After that criticism Stewart had his best period as a gloveman.

Prior started his test career disastrously with the gloves with some truly embarrassing performances. Dropping the most straightforward of catches and he is listed 3 times in the top 25 from most byes conceded in test history. If his batting wasn't so excellent in his initial period he wouldnt have lasted. His career for England can be split into two halves - an initially hopeless keeper with a brilliant batting average and then for his last 3 years a very improved and good keeper with a more moderate average (33 in his last 3 years but an excellent 40 overall). It should be added though he was playing for a great England side and had much more opportunity of batting at 300/5 with a KP/Bell or Cook than Buttler has.

I'm looking forward to him playing in the winter and don't have the same worries that some others do.
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Think it's been more tongue in cheek humour than us actually thinking he's a joke figure. I can't speak fully for the others but I've always considered him an outstanding white ball talent that simply hadn't adapted to test cricket, rather than some T20 slogger who should never play the longer format. I'm pleased he's starting to prove me wrong as he's good to watch and seems a really nice lad.

Won't deny that some comments made will have been gentle provocation for amusement purposes.
 
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The Breen Machine said:
Think it's been more tongue in cheek humour than us actually thinking he's a joke figure. I can't speak fully for the others but I've always considered him an outstanding white ball talent that simply hadn't adapted to test cricket, rather than some T20 slogger who should never play the longer format. I'm pleased he's starting to prove me wrong as he's good to watch and seems a really nice lad.
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This is exactly what me, you and Chunks have said all along.

The three of us were almost falling over ourselves with praise when he's done well ffs
 
TheRey said:
I don't think the criticism he got was out of order at all. He had been in very poor form in Test cricket since the India series in 2018, and was starting to cost more runs than he was scoring. His place was under scrutiny, he himself admitted that.

And I think a lot of the "comical" comments were more aimed at the likes of Johnson and latterly that Salem geezer, who bizarrely seem to take any criticism of Buttler - however valid - as a personal affront. I honestly think Salem cries to his mother every time Jos gets any mild criticism!

That said, he has performed admirably in this series, and has earned the right to keep his place. I have my serious doubts about how he'll fare in the subcontinent, but he's just about earned the right to play down there.
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Agreed although he did average 41 against Sri Lanka with a brilliant knock in Kandy after the India series. No I agree criticism was deserved but I must admit I did prefer the cricket forum in its earlier days where discussions / debates seemed to be more balanced and reasonable.
 
rentaghost said:
Agreed although he did average 41 against Sri Lanka with a brilliant knock in Kandy after the India series. No I agree criticism was deserved but I must admit I did prefer the cricket forum in its earlier days where discussions / debates seemed to be more balanced and reasonable.
Click to expand...

WTF?!

Terrible post, you know nothing about cricket

Insane you like

Log off
 
rentaghost said:
Agreed although he did average 41 against Sri Lanka with a brilliant knock in Kandy after the India series. No I agree criticism was deserved but I must admit I did prefer the cricket forum in its earlier days where discussions / debates seemed to be more balanced and reasonable.
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Agreed mind.
The Breen Machine said:
WTF?!

Terrible post, you know nothing about cricket

Insane you like

Log off
Click to expand...
:lol:
 
rentaghost said:
Good post and I agree with that. It is right that his place should have been a point of debate until recently but the 'take the piss' type criticism on here as if Jos was a comical joke type figure from the like of Steak, Chunky, The Rey, Breen Machine was always wrong and out of order IMO ( i don't really count the Travelling guy in this as he doesn't really have the same level of cricket understanding as the others). Anyway regarding the future he has plenty of experience in India albeit in the shorter format and his much improved batting form will see him play and rightly so. I think It wont even be a point of debate amongst people outside of message boards. Comparing with players from the past doesn't really count for much as selection can only be made against current competition but some people do see past players through rose tinted glasses.

Alec Stewart is looked back on as a great. Reading Alec Stewart's book where he talks about going through a desperate period with the gloves where commentators such as Ian Botham were suggesting 'his eyes have gone.' Stewart would have been panned on this board back then and his average while keeping wicket was 34 broadly the same as Buttlers. After that criticism Stewart had his best period as a gloveman.

Prior started his test career disastrously with the gloves with some truly embarrassing performances. Dropping the most straightforward of catches and he is listed 3 times in the top 25 from most byes conceded in test history. If his batting wasn't so excellent in his initial period he wouldnt have lasted. His career for England can be split into two halves - an initially hopeless keeper with a brilliant batting average and then for his last 3 years a very improved and good keeper with a more moderate average (33 in his last 3 years but an excellent 40 overall). It should be added though he was playing for a great England side and had much more opportunity of batting at 300/5 with a KP/Bell or Cook than Buttler has.

I'm looking forward to him playing in the winter and don't have the same worries that some others do.
Click to expand...

You could have tagged us, like.

I'll go back to his 2018 recall. After the The Ashes and then the UAE in 2016 he was all over the place and was rightly dropped, he'd had about 20 Tests and after a decent start to his career his average was down around 22-23.

I was watching him at OT in between, he couldn't get into the side as the wicketkeeper and played some of the single worst and most disinterested innings I've ever seen when he was picked as a batsman. Did he score 10-15 runs or something in the entire season? It was a joke around OT that he was being considered for a recall.

Now he came back in 2018 and had a great series at home, then carried it over into Sri Lanka (Remember how over the top you and your mate went when he had 4-5 good games?). Since then he's failed in the Windies, failed in NZ, failed in The Ashes, failed in SA. Now we're up to 40 tests and his average is still in the 20s, it's very very rare anyone gets that amount of chances. He has said he thought he would be dropped, he was that poor.

But to a couple of posters on here he was a still a certainty to be picked, so the stuff got a little more lighthearted. It's a message board after all, not a selectors meeting. Don't think anyone has gone over the top apart from a couple of the usual suspects, both of whom are firmly in Jos's camp.

So here we are, he's had a great summer and will play in the winter. So if we're discussing a missed stumping or a brilliant century one evening, I hope the tone stays a bit light hearted and a bit piss takey. Or I'll be seething, obvs.
rentaghost said:
Agreed although he did average 41 against Sri Lanka with a brilliant knock in Kandy after the India series. No I agree criticism was deserved but I must admit I did prefer the cricket forum in its earlier days where discussions / debates seemed to be more balanced and reasonable.
Click to expand...

We won't be getting a 15 page thread on any other England player bar Big Ben, that's for certain.
 
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Steak Pie said:
You could have tagged us, like.

I'll go back to his 2018 recall. After the The Ashes and then the UAE in 2016 he was all over the place and was rightly dropped, he'd had about 20 Tests and after a decent start to his career his average was down around 22-23.

I was watching him at OT in between, he couldn't get into the side as the wicketkeeper and played some of the single worst and most disinterested innings I've ever seen when he was picked as a batsman. Did he score 10-15 runs or something in the entire season? It was a joke around OT that he was being considered for a recall.

Now he came back in 2018 and had a great series at home, then carried it over into Sri Lanka (Remember how over the top you and your mate went when he had 4-5 good games?). Since then he's failed in the Windies, failed in NZ, failed in The Ashes, failed in SA. Now we're up to 40 tests and his average is still in the 20s, it's very very rare anyone gets that amount of chances. He has said he thought he would be dropped, he was that poor.

But to a couple of posters on here he was a still a certainty to be picked, so the stuff got a little more lighthearted. It's a message board after all, not a selectors meeting. Don't think anyone has gone over the top apart from a couple of the usual suspects, both of whom are firmly in Jos's camp.

So here we are, he's had a great summer and will play in the winter. So if we're discussing a missed stumping or a brilliant century one evening, I hope the tone stays a bit light hearted and a bit piss takey. Or I'll be seething, obvs.


We won't be getting a 15 page thread on any other England player bar Big Ben, that's for certain.
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I think that's a good and fair summary mate.

As for the latter point, I personally cannot wait for the next time Bairstow is bowled through the gate in England colours.

;)
 
Steak Pie said:
You could have tagged us, like.

I'll go back to his 2018 recall. After the The Ashes and then the UAE in 2016 he was all over the place and was rightly dropped, he'd had about 20 Tests and after a decent start to his career his average was down around 22-23.

I was watching him at OT in between, he couldn't get into the side as the wicketkeeper and played some of the single worst and most disinterested innings I've ever seen when he was picked as a batsman. Did he score 10-15 runs or something in the entire season? It was a joke around OT that he was being considered for a recall.

Now he came back in 2018 and had a great series at home, then carried it over into Sri Lanka (Remember how over the top you and your mate went when he had 4-5 good games?). Since then he's failed in the Windies, failed in NZ, failed in The Ashes, failed in SA. Now we're up to 40 tests and his average is still in the 20s, it's very very rare anyone gets that amount of chances. He has said he thought he would be dropped, he was that poor.

But to a couple of posters on here he was a still a certainty to be picked, so the stuff got a little more lighthearted. It's a message board after all, not a selectors meeting. Don't think anyone has gone over the top apart from a couple of the usual suspects, both of whom are firmly in Jos's camp.

So here we are, he's had a great summer and will play in the winter. So if we're discussing a missed stumping or a brilliant century one evening, I hope the tone stays a bit light hearted and a bit piss takey. Or I'll be seething, obvs.


We won't be getting a 15 page thread on any other England player bar Big Ben, that's for certain.
Click to expand...

Well you would say that wouldn't you ;) You often argue stuff like this but what he did or didn't do in some county matches a few years ago just has no relevance at all to where we are today. He can only be judged as an England cricketer and his performances in that role for better or for worse.
Also his test average isn't in his 20s (its 33) and since his recall 36 above Alec Stewart's average while keeping wicket for example and in the 50s this summer. I think sometimes there has to be some recognition about how difficult it is to score runs against top class international attacks, particularly when you aren't a team that is hugely dominant positions very often and on the whole he has done pretty well IMO.
 
Steak Pie said:
You could have tagged us, like.

I'll go back to his 2018 recall. After the The Ashes and then the UAE in 2016 he was all over the place and was rightly dropped, he'd had about 20 Tests and after a decent start to his career his average was down around 22-23.

I was watching him at OT in between, he couldn't get into the side as the wicketkeeper and played some of the single worst and most disinterested innings I've ever seen when he was picked as a batsman. Did he score 10-15 runs or something in the entire season? It was a joke around OT that he was being considered for a recall.

Now he came back in 2018 and had a great series at home, then carried it over into Sri Lanka (Remember how over the top you and your mate went when he had 4-5 good games?). Since then he's failed in the Windies, failed in NZ, failed in The Ashes, failed in SA. Now we're up to 40 tests and his average is still in the 20s, it's very very rare anyone gets that amount of chances. He has said he thought he would be dropped, he was that poor.

But to a couple of posters on here he was a still a certainty to be picked, so the stuff got a little more lighthearted. It's a message board after all, not a selectors meeting. Don't think anyone has gone over the top apart from a couple of the usual suspects, both of whom are firmly in Jos's camp.

So here we are, he's had a great summer and will play in the winter. So if we're discussing a missed stumping or a brilliant century one evening, I hope the tone stays a bit light hearted and a bit piss takey. Or I'll be seething, obvs.


We won't be getting a 15 page thread on any other England player bar Big Ben, that's for certain.
Click to expand...
Excellent attempt at rewriting history here. 10/10
 
rentaghost said:
Well you would say that wouldn't you ;) You often argue stuff like this but what he did or didn't do in some county matches a few years ago just has no relevance at all to where we are today. He can only be judged as an England cricketer and his performances in that role for better or for worse.
Also his test average isn't in his 20s (its 33) and since his recall 36 above Alec Stewart's average while keeping wicket for example and in the 50s this summer. I think sometimes there has to be some recognition about how difficult it is to score runs against top class international attacks, particularly when you aren't a team that is hugely dominant positions very often and on the whole he has done pretty well IMO.
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I was doing it in timeline. I agree his county performance have no bearing now, and his average was in the 20s before this summer. Scoring 50s, 70s and 152 helps push it upwards. :D

And yes, he can only be judged on his England games and up to this summer he'd played big innings for England maybe 3 or 4 time in 40 games. This summer, no arguments.
 
Steak Pie said:
I was doing it in timeline. I agree his county performance have no bearing now, and his average was in the 20s before this summer. Scoring 50s, 70s and 152 helps push it upwards. :D

And yes, he can only be judged on his England games and up to this summer he'd played big innings for England maybe 3 or 4 time in 40 games. This summer, no arguments.
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Of course that's how averages work :D You did say though that his average was still in its 20s.
 

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