This obsession with 2 holding midfielders🤷‍♂️

big winnie said:
Two defensive midfield player! Rice looked the player to do this whilst Philips simply man marked his own centre backs offering nothing at all. Foden looked the most dynamic midfielder and was withdrawn! James should be third choice behind Walker/ Trippier. Grealish should have started. Negative tactics and too slow in transition allowing the Scots to reset their defence every time. And don’t get me started on Kane….looks jaded and predictable and should not have started. Should have put these Scots to the sword and then experiment.
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I agree. Our 2 full backs didn’t get forward. It was the same with Scotland. It was such a dull game.

0 minutes added time in the first half and only 2 in the 2nd suggest it was non eventful and even the ref couldn’t be arsed.
 


The reaction to the performance of Phillips and England against Croatia was way over the top.

You'd have thought we'd totally dominated a game against one of the best sides in World Football from the pundits reaction.
It was slow, boring and negative football which was why very few chances were created.

Performance against Scotland was a carbon copy but didn't get the one moment of creativity to gloss over it.

England could well bore there way through the tournament of course and Southgate will be heralded as a genius.
 
Hulkster said:
It will be even worse against one of the better teams.
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It was better v Croatia, who imo are better than Scotland. Its horses for courses. Just my opinion but last night one of Rice or Phillips should have been took off instead of Foden
WASTID said:
The reaction to the performance of Phillips and England against Croatia was way over the top.

You'd have thought we'd totally dominated a game against one of the best sides in World Football from the pundits reaction.
It was slow, boring and negative football which was why very few chances were created.

Performance against Scotland was a carbon copy but didn't get the one moment of creativity to gloss over it.

England could well bore there way through the tournament of course and Southgate will be heralded as a genius.
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Worked against Croatia. Limited them to next to nothing and won the game pretty comfortably. Which hasn't been the case when we've played them over the last few year.
 
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rocky said:
It was better v Croatia, who imo are better than Scotland. Its horses for courses. Just my opinion but last night one of Rice or Phillips should have been took off instead of Foden

Worked against Croatia. Limited them to next to nothing and won the game pretty comfortably. Which hasn't been the case when we've played them over the last few year.
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What happened the last few year with Croatia has no bearing on this tournament. Croatia have regressed significantly.
Mandzukic (sp?) isn't there anymore to play off and his replacement nowhere near as good.
Rakitic isn't playing anymore either. A huge miss for them. Him and Modric were able to run games as they were on a world class level.
Modric is 36 in September. He's not the force of old understandably.

England didn't do much at all against Croatia. It was not the great performance it was painted as and it showed in a similar performance last night.
 
WASTID said:
What happened the last few year with Croatia has no bearing on this tournament. Croatia have regressed significantly.
Mandzukic (sp?) isn't there anymore to play off and his replacement nowhere near as good.
Rakitic isn't playing anymore either. A huge miss for them. Him and Modric were able to run games as they were on a world class level.
Modric is 36 in September. He's not the force of old understandably.

England didn't do much at all against Croatia. It was not the great performance it was painted as and it showed in a similar performance last night.
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Well it does as its still a lot of the same players. Southgate found a way to beat them relatively comfortably. That doesn't mean that's the right team to beat Scotland.
 
WASTID said:
The reaction to the performance of Phillips and England against Croatia was way over the top.

You'd have thought we'd totally dominated a game against one of the best sides in World Football from the pundits reaction.
It was slow, boring and negative football which was why very few chances were created.

Performance against Scotland was a carbon copy but didn't get the one moment of creativity to gloss over it.

England could well bore there way through the tournament of course and Southgate will be heralded as a genius.
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Agree with your post apart from the last bit , majority of people I have spoken with are strongly against him
 
rocky said:
Well it does as its still a lot of the same players. Southgate found a way to beat them relatively comfortably. That doesn't mean that's the right team to beat Scotland.
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I've just pointed out three very big reasons why it's not the same team. Two of their best players gone and the other is old enough to be Bellingham's dad (and his legs show it!)
daveydavey said:
Agree with your post apart from the last bit , majority of people I have spoken with are strongly against him
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The point was not that he is a genius.

Tournament football is such that you ride a lot of luck and go far. Denmark, Greece and even Portugal last time bored their way through the tournament to win it.
 
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WASTID said:
I've just pointed out three very big reasons why it's not the same team. Two of their best players gone and the other is old enough to be Bellingham's dad (and his legs show it!)


The point was not that he is a genius.

Tournament football is such that you ride a lot of luck and go far. Denmark, Greece and even Portugal last time bored their way through the tournament to win it.
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Exactly, remember italy in 1982 w/c, didn't win a group game, qualified and went on to win it ( beating arguably best brazil side since 1970 on the way ) . If you'd watched them in group games odds would have been in treble figures.
 
Pilly said:
I mean for France it’s Rabiot who plays alongside Kante. So not sure where Pogba comes in as a defensive midfielder.

Nederlands De Roon and De Jong and Winaldjum all have periods playing defensive midfield

Belgium- Dendonker, Tielmans.

I mean you may argue they’re better than ours but none of the above are considered attacking midfielders particularly. Or I certainly wouldn’t consider them attacking like Mount, Pogba, De Bruyne etc.
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Rabiot is playing more attacking than we do but i can see what you mean about him being a defensive midfielder.

Neither Tielemens nor Dendonker are defensive midfielders. Thats part of Belgiums issue. Theyre both attacking midfielders. They always have been.

And frankie de jong is about as defensive as Raheem Stirling. In that he can tackle but hes in no way a defensive midfielder. Im mot even going to comment on Winjaldum being a defensive midfielder at any point
 
parsonjohn1985 said:
Rabiot is playing more attacking than we do but i can see what you mean about him being a defensive midfielder.

Neither Tielemens nor Dendonker are defensive midfielders. Thats part of Belgiums issue. Theyre both attacking midfielders. They always have been.

And frankie de jong is about as defensive as Raheem Stirling. In that he can tackle but hes in no way a defensive midfielder. Im mot even going to comment on Winjaldum being a defensive midfielder at any point
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Yet they are filling the same spots on the pitch as rice/Phillips so you can compare them directly in a way . I can't understand why we can't play someone who is comfortable on the ball there...Henderson would be a massive improvement ( if / when fit )!
 
SteveB said:
Yet they are filling the same spots on the pitch as rice/Phillips so you can compare them directly in a way . I can't understand why we can't play someone who is comfortable on the ball there...Henderson would be a massive improvement ( if / when fit )!
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What a ridiculous thing to say.

Schwarz occupied the same position on the pitch as McGeady. One is defensive, one isnt. Rashford occupied the same position last night as Kane. Theyre not both strikers. England issues is we play two defensive midfielders. Its arguable france do as well. The others absolutely do not. If England played Grealish and Mount around Rice noone would be saying they were playing two defensive midfielders
 
It's pretty laughable to try to say an midfield of Rice, Phillips and Mount is just as attack minded as Kante, Rabiot and Pogba and some of the others listed.

England should use Mount as a a conventional central midfielder. His work rate is higher than anyone's, he can win the ball, but when he gets is he is more dynamic, more positive and can pick a pass. He's pretty much the all round complete central midfielder, but I don't think he offers enough threat to be the number 10 or even just be the attacking one out of a midfield three.

Play Mount and Phillips/Henderson as your midfield two then Grealish or Foden as your number 10. Or depending on how you want to describe it simply a midfield three of Henderson/Mount/Foden.
 
JL1985 said:
It was a bizarre team selection tonight. A few months ago Walker and Foden tore Robertson to pieces at Anfield. That combination should have started the game.
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Robertson playing as a wing back with Tierney behind him is a bit different though, Walker was shocking on Sunday, thought James deserved a chance and did ok
 
Sea to Shining Sea said:
It is if they both play as holding midfielders. Phillips was ambitious, dynamic and willing to carry the ball forward the other day and wasn’t playing as a ‘holding’ midfielder. He lost that verve tonight and it made for a fairly grim showing from the middle of the park.
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This. Only Rice held back against Croatia. Philips and Mount got forward wherever possible.
 

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