The Independent Commission For Equity In Cricket

[FoldingStars]

I had trials for Durham in the mid 00's, and it was a bit of a joke. Obviously things could have changed significantly since. Basically given 1 over or something to bat, and don't think I even got to face a delivery. And only 1 over to bowl. Before the game one parent was particularly close to the selector and his son was the only player taken on, and it was so obvious even before the trial match. He also went to a private school (he wasn't even a decent player, and don't think he ever did anything pf note going forwards). There were so many hoops to jump through as well before the actual trial match, 2-3 different training camps you had to be selected through.
School cricket didn't help either, at Monkwearmouth you were lucky to get 2-3 games a year, less if it rained. Playing on artificial wickets with a poor setup. Don't even think the outfield was mown or marked properly. Played against Durham private school one time and it was a completely different world

You must have been a couple years younger than me as I went to Monkwearmouth and my brother 2 years older, we got around 10/15 games a year, lucky in both years that we had a solid group of 7 or 8 of us who played sunday cricket for Whitburn/Boldon but luckiest part is we had parents/grandparents who were willing to drive us to all the games. My memory is shocking but sure Mr Davies used to lose a lot of his nights having to take us around the North East in cup matches.

The all weather pitch was pretty decent, especially better than some of the other pitches we played on thats for sure. #issue is if you got a year or two with no appetite for cricket in PE then the school didnt have a team and the wicket would just be left to ruin, If you got the choice of cricket or football 99% pick football. Durham City was a joke though, sure they had Australian coaches come over during summer and they had winter camps in Southern hemisphere, obviously they were not exactly camps but just school trips which helped them out. Durham trails/being selected was a joke, it was the same people every year and 90% were at Durham city, 1 lad from school got in and was amazed how none of us were picked as we had much better base skills.

The thing I'm left with is why only 4000 replied and 2000 had faced some sort of discrimination, it can be read that over 50% of people playing cricket have faced some sort of discrimination which is absolutely horrific or that only 2000 people have faced it, obviously 1 case is too many but the difference is huge.

Some of the changes that are wanted are just silly, scrapping the posh boys game is wrong, what should happen is a country cup final should be played at all county grounds, then a schools final played at lords, instead of stopping games there we should have more. Women being paid the same as men, thats not upto the ECB, thats the general public, if they wish to watch womens cricket, willing to pay the ticket prices and they bring in the money then yes you can do matched pay, tennis does this pretty well, obviously figures dont need to be the exact same but I'd be shocked if the income for the ECB isnt 90% mens and 10% womens.

 

[SAFC11]

You must have been a couple years younger than me as I went to Monkwearmouth and my brother 2 years older, we got around 10/15 games a year, lucky in both years that we had a solid group of 7 or 8 of us who played sunday cricket for Whitburn/Boldon but luckiest part is we had parents/grandparents who were willing to drive us to all the games. My memory is shocking but sure Mr Davies used to lose a lot of his nights having to take us around the North East in cup matches.

The all weather pitch was pretty decent, especially better than some of the other pitches we played on thats for sure. #issue is if you got a year or two with no appetite for cricket in PE then the school didnt have a team and the wicket would just be left to ruin, If you got the choice of cricket or football 99% pick football. Durham City was a joke though, sure they had Australian coaches come over during summer and they had winter camps in Southern hemisphere, obviously they were not exactly camps but just school trips which helped them out. Durham trails/being selected was a joke, it was the same people every year and 90% were at Durham city, 1 lad from school got in and was amazed how none of us were picked as we had much better base skills.

The thing I'm left with is why only 4000 replied and 2000 had faced some sort of discrimination, it can be read that over 50% of people playing cricket have faced some sort of discrimination which is absolutely horrific or that only 2000 people have faced it, obviously 1 case is too many but the difference is huge.

Some of the changes that are wanted are just silly, scrapping the posh boys game is wrong, what should happen is a country cup final should be played at all county grounds, then a schools final played at lords, instead of stopping games there we should have more. Women being paid the same as men, thats not upto the ECB, thats the general public, if they wish to watch womens cricket, willing to pay the ticket prices and they bring in the money then yes you can do matched pay, tennis does this pretty well, obviously figures dont need to be the exact same but I'd be shocked if the income for the ECB isnt 90% mens and 10% womens.

I was 02-07. A lot of our lads including me played for Whitburn at the time. Mr Walters was our coach by this time. Think they turned it into a knock out either because schools didn't have the interest or just to fit it in the few months at school cricket could be played

 

[leecoo]

You must have been a couple years younger than me as I went to Monkwearmouth and my brother 2 years older, we got around 10/15 games a year, lucky in both years that we had a solid group of 7 or 8 of us who played sunday cricket for Whitburn/Boldon but luckiest part is we had parents/grandparents who were willing to drive us to all the games. My memory is shocking but sure Mr Davies used to lose a lot of his nights having to take us around the North East in cup matches.

The all weather pitch was pretty decent, especially better than some of the other pitches we played on thats for sure. #issue is if you got a year or two with no appetite for cricket in PE then the school didnt have a team and the wicket would just be left to ruin, If you got the choice of cricket or football 99% pick football. Durham City was a joke though, sure they had Australian coaches come over during summer and they had winter camps in Southern hemisphere, obviously they were not exactly camps but just school trips which helped them out. Durham trails/being selected was a joke, it was the same people every year and 90% were at Durham city, 1 lad from school got in and was amazed how none of us were picked as we had much better base skills.

The thing I'm left with is why only 4000 replied and 2000 had faced some sort of discrimination, it can be read that over 50% of people playing cricket have faced some sort of discrimination which is absolutely horrific or that only 2000 people have faced it, obviously 1 case is too many but the difference is huge.

Some of the changes that are wanted are just silly, scrapping the posh boys game is wrong, what should happen is a country cup final should be played at all county grounds, then a schools final played at lords, instead of stopping games there we should have more. Women being paid the same as men, thats not upto the ECB, thats the general public, if they wish to watch womens cricket, willing to pay the ticket prices and they bring in the money then yes you can do matched pay, tennis does this pretty well, obviously figures dont need to be the exact same but I'd be shocked if the income for the ECB isnt 90% mens and 10% womens.

Durham School had Mike Hirsch as a coach he might have done something with Durham City also

Durham City always used to have Aussies playing for them, even Jim Allenby used to play for their junior team - who was an aussie who went on to play for somerset and glamorgan

 

[Mr.Thunders]

Isa Guha has been talking a lot of sense about this.I always find when reports like this come out it gets certain people's backs up.No idea why.Truth hurts?

 

[FoldingStars]

I was 02-07. A lot of our lads including me played for Whitburn at the time. Mr Walters was our coach by this time. Think they turned it into a knock out either because schools didn't have the interest or just to fit it in the few months at school cricket could be played

Sure Mine was 98-03 so you got the pitch after 5 years or so, probably at the end of its life already especially with it never being 'closed' so every PE class you had people running over it in footy boots and the likes.

Durham School had Mike Hirsch as a coach he might have done something with Durham City also

Durham City always used to have Aussies playing for them, even Jim Allenby used to play for their junior team - who was an aussie who went on to play for somerset and glamorgan

It might have been Durham school tbh, I just remember they had grass wickets, and even a scoreboard hut, like previously mentioned, we were lucky if the grass had been cut that week and if it had the cuttings were certainly not moved from the outfield.

 

[Sillypoint]

You must have been a couple years younger than me as I went to Monkwearmouth and my brother 2 years older, we got around 10/15 games a year, lucky in both years that we had a solid group of 7 or 8 of us who played sunday cricket for Whitburn/Boldon but luckiest part is we had parents/grandparents who were willing to drive us to all the games. My memory is shocking but sure Mr Davies used to lose a lot of his nights having to take us around the North East in cup matches.

The all weather pitch was pretty decent, especially better than some of the other pitches we played on thats for sure. #issue is if you got a year or two with no appetite for cricket in PE then the school didnt have a team and the wicket would just be left to ruin, If you got the choice of cricket or football 99% pick football. Durham City was a joke though, sure they had Australian coaches come over during summer and they had winter camps in Southern hemisphere, obviously they were not exactly camps but just school trips which helped them out. Durham trails/being selected was a joke, it was the same people every year and 90% were at Durham city, 1 lad from school got in and was amazed how none of us were picked as we had much better base skills.

The thing I'm left with is why only 4000 replied and 2000 had faced some sort of discrimination, it can be read that over 50% of people playing cricket have faced some sort of discrimination which is absolutely horrific or that only 2000 people have faced it, obviously 1 case is too many but the difference is huge.

Some of the changes that are wanted are just silly, scrapping the posh boys game is wrong, what should happen is a country cup final should be played at all county grounds, then a schools final played at lords, instead of stopping games there we should have more. Women being paid the same as men, thats not upto the ECB, thats the general public, if they wish to watch womens cricket, willing to pay the ticket prices and they bring in the money then yes you can do matched pay, tennis does this pretty well, obviously figures dont need to be the exact same but I'd be shocked if the income for the ECB isnt 90% mens and 10% womens.

Think the trials process is slightly better now, i think all clubs nominate kids to attend the open trials which are usually about 6 weeks in october/november, however who is actually picked is another matter..

 

[Chewit]

Cricket has always been classist, elitist, sexist and by proxy probably racist (as minorities are usually lower class etc). I don't think the report is that much of a suprise. Obviously they've tried to expand to be more inclusive in the last decade but that's still in progress

Take your first sentence and ask why. For me it’s education, schools which treat cricket seriously produce great cricketers. That doesn’t mean cricket is racist it means that mainstream schools dont think it’s important.
Cricket is a time consuming game which needs a lot of space. I don’t imagine you will see a lot of black kids in inner city London playing cricket in the community cages the way they do football.
Should cricketing authorities and government be doing more to get kids of all backgrounds playing cricket by ensuring the facilities and coaching is available? Possibly but the same argument should be applied to tennis, rugby and golf.
Having said all that cricket is the Asian sport of choice, why are Asian kids just not interested enough or do they have other priorities so don’t join local clubs.
I don’t think it’s racist but it may be elitist.

 

[Inside Forward]

I’ll say one thing. It’s no wonder England teams lack fight. It’s the same with the rugby team - most of them went to private schools too. As soon as the going gets tough they crumble.

Absolutely no way a group of working class lads throw the towel in the way I’ve seen some England cricketers and rugby players do over the last 3-4 years.

 

[king of the road]

Durham School had Mike Hirsch as a coach he might have done something with Durham City also

Durham City always used to have Aussies playing for them, even Jim Allenby used to play for their junior team - who was an aussie who went on to play for somerset and glamorgan

Hirshy is still there!

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

There’ll be a report like this for every single sport played in the country. And they’ll keep publishing them time and time again. The notion that the issues of class, gender and race are a cricket problem is crackers. Theyre very obviously society issues that permeate the game and every other sport. Do MCC big wigs and local lads using the P word in changing rooms with careless abandon take off their county ties or whites, go home and no longer be like that? Is there something about leather and willow and the smell of fresh cut grass that brings it on?

Course not. But politicians will stand up, naval gaze, agree with the report, do a load of harrumphing and state that it ‘must be changed!’. Then, when confronted with the issue as a society problem they’ll say Britain is a diverse and welcoming country in all aspects of life and anyone who says anything else is an unpatriotic naysayer. A total load of bollocks

 

[MustardAndOnions]

I’ll say one thing. It’s no wonder England teams lack fight. It’s the same with the rugby team - most of them went to private schools too. As soon as the going gets tough they crumble.

Absolutely no way a group of working class lads throw the towel in the way I’ve seen some England cricketers and rugby players do over the last 3-4 years.

The England team doesnt lack fight at all.

There’ll be a report like this for every single sport played in the country. And they’ll keep publishing them time and time again. The notion that the issues of class, gender and race are a cricket problem is crackers. Theyre very obviously society issues that permeate the game and every other sport. Do MCC big wigs and local lads using the P word in changing rooms with careless abandon take off their county ties or whites, go home and no longer be like that? Is there something about leather and willow and the smell of fresh cut grass that brings it on?

Course not. But politicians will stand up, naval gaze, agree with the report, do a load of harrumphing and state that it ‘must be changed!’. Then, when confronted with the issue as a society problem they’ll say Britain is a diverse and welcoming country in all aspects of life and anyone who says anything else is an unpatriotic naysayer. A total load of bollocks

they absolutely are a problem in cricket like. how can someone bury their head in the sand this much? the system designed for private school pupils to succeed

they arent a problem in football in the slightest, at all, all the big names in football and majority of players are all from state schools

 

[seaham ftm]

You must have been a couple years younger than me as I went to Monkwearmouth and my brother 2 years older, we got around 10/15 games a year, lucky in both years that we had a solid group of 7 or 8 of us who played sunday cricket for Whitburn/Boldon but luckiest part is we had parents/grandparents who were willing to drive us to all the games. My memory is shocking but sure Mr Davies used to lose a lot of his nights having to take us around the North East in cup matches.

The all weather pitch was pretty decent, especially better than some of the other pitches we played on thats for sure. #issue is if you got a year or two with no appetite for cricket in PE then the school didnt have a team and the wicket would just be left to ruin, If you got the choice of cricket or football 99% pick football. Durham City was a joke though, sure they had Australian coaches come over during summer and they had winter camps in Southern hemisphere, obviously they were not exactly camps but just school trips which helped them out. Durham trails/being selected was a joke, it was the same people every year and 90% were at Durham city, 1 lad from school got in and was amazed how none of us were picked as we had much better base skills.

The thing I'm left with is why only 4000 replied and 2000 had faced some sort of discrimination, it can be read that over 50% of people playing cricket have faced some sort of discrimination which is absolutely horrific or that only 2000 people have faced it, obviously 1 case is too many but the difference is huge.

Some of the changes that are wanted are just silly, scrapping the posh boys game is wrong, what should happen is a country cup final should be played at all county grounds, then a schools final played at lords, instead of stopping games there we should have more. Women being paid the same as men, thats not upto the ECB, thats the general public, if they wish to watch womens cricket, willing to pay the ticket prices and they bring in the money then yes you can do matched pay, tennis does this pretty well, obviously figures dont need to be the exact same but I'd be shocked if the income for the ECB isnt 90% mens and 10% womens.

Great post.

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

The England team doesnt lack fight at all.

they absolutely are a problem in cricket like. how can someone bury their head in the sand this much? the system designed for private school pupils to succeed

they arent a problem in football in the slightest, at all, all the big names in football and majority of players are all from state schools

You misunderstand the point. I’m not saying it isn’t an issue in cricket. It absolutely unequivocally is. There is inequality, privilege, under privilege and discrimination in every part of the game.

But these are wider societal issues that permeate into sports (including football by the way) and the very same people that will be quick to accept this report with regards to cricket would not for a second say the same about wider society.

 

[MustardAndOnions]

You misunderstand the point. I’m not saying it isn’t an issue in cricket. It absolutely unequivocally is. There is inequality, privilege, under privilege and discrimination in every part of the game.

But these are wider societal issues that permeate into sports (including football by the way) and the very same people that will be quick to accept this report with regards to cricket would not for a second say the same about wider society.

But doesnt mean we shouldnt do anything about it like, we are governing body who can make change if they want to.

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

But doesnt mean we shouldnt do anything about it like, we are governing body who can make change if they want to.

I didn’t say that either. My issue is that until the issue is tackled properly at the roots, accepted by all across the political divides, then this will continue to happen time and time again.

What are the ECB going to do? Are they going to take a zero tolerance approach towards selection at the highest level? Are they going to put out really tough directives to local clubs to deal with this whilst allowing Ollie Robinson to represent England at the highest level despite his past misdemeanours?

Are the BBC going to condemn this, talk about it at length, say how shocking it is and continue to allow Vaughan to broadcast despite a cloud hanging over him? Or continue to discuss ‘Sir Geoffrey’ with all his baggage?

I doubt it. And that’s why this frustrates me. It’s not the contents of the report which are undeniable, it’s the total disingenuousness that follows.

 

[MustardAndOnions]

I didn’t say that either. My issue is that until the issue is tackled properly at the roots, accepted by all across the political divides, then this will continue to happen time and time again.

What are the ECB going to do? Are they going to take a zero tolerance approach towards selection at the highest level? Are they going to put out really tough directives to local clubs to deal with this whilst allowing Ollie Robinson to represent England at the highest level despite his past misdemeanours?

Are the BBC going to condemn this, talk about it at length, say how shocking it is and continue to allow Vaughan to broadcast despite a cloud hanging over him? Or continue to discuss ‘Sir Geoffrey’ with all his baggage?

I doubt it. And that’s why this frustrates me. It’s not the contents of the report which are undeniable, it’s the total disingenuousness that follows.

I am strictly on about class like, the racism thing is widely covered, and not a big as a problem as the class issue.

it should be simple, get more kids in state schools playing cricket and into pathways, make more equipment free etc

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

I am strictly on about class like, the racism thing is widely covered, and not a big as a problem as the class issue.

it should be simple, get more kids in state schools playing cricket and into pathways, make more equipment free etc

Without getting too sidetracked, class and race aren’t mutually exclusive.

But as I mentioned before, class is an issue across society. Whether it be working in finance, the civil service, the military or politics, gaining access to university places at the highest ranking establishments, drug convictions, or even football (if we’re talking ownership - we’re owner by the Louis Dreyfus family!), it’s an issue across the board and far from unique to cricket.

there’ll be hand wringing, naval gazing and finger wagging RE cricket but it won’t change.

 

[MustardAndOnions]

Without getting too sidetracked, class and race aren’t mutually exclusive.

But as I mentioned before, class is an issue across society. Whether it be working in finance, the civil service, the military or politics, gaining access to university places at the highest ranking establishments, drug convictions, or even football (if we’re talking ownership - we’re owner by the Louis Dreyfus family!), it’s an issue across the board and far from unique to cricket.

there’ll be hand wringing, naval gazing and finger wagging RE cricket but it won’t change.

yeah a lot of minorities are often in working class and state edcuated, but not always

I just care about classism, and in cricket, I dont agree there is nothing you do, there is loads and loads you can do

its all about widening the player pool and getting more people from "normal" backgrounds playing cricket. Durham do it brilliantly with strong linkes to a great a club cricket scene, but thats not replicated over the country.

I think all 11 of England's football world cup first side are from state schools, its usually 8 out of 11 went to private in the test team. when 93% of the country is state educated

ECB can do loads to increase participation and pathways, and try and reduce costs for kids who cant afford kits or nets

Sorry dont agree at all.

Without getting too sidetracked, class and race aren’t mutually exclusive.

But as I mentioned before, class is an issue across society. Whether it be working in finance, the civil service, the military or politics, gaining access to university places at the highest ranking establishments, drug convictions, or even football (if we’re talking ownership - we’re owner by the Louis Dreyfus family!), it’s an issue across the board and far from unique to cricket.

there’ll be hand wringing, naval gazing and finger wagging RE cricket but it won’t change.

I am keeping out of the match thread, but cant undertsand your point on England's battin btw, it doesnt match the results we've had...

we chased 378 against India,we chased 300 aainst NZ, and scored 530 in the firsy innings, Bairstow scored 140 in the chase.

we scored 500 several times against Pakistan. Brook scored 184 in NZ as we ot 400+

I kind of wonder if I ahve been watching different test matches to everyone else, Bairstow scored 6 100s last year and Brook scored 5. Roots average has gone up to 67 under Stokes. we consistently score more runs than we have in years and years.

yet everyone seems to have just either forgotten it or ignored it

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

yeah a lot of minorities are often in working class and state edcuated, but not always

I just care about classism, and in cricket, I dont agree there is nothing you do, there is loads and loads you can do

its all about widening the player pool and getting more people from "normal" backgrounds playing cricket. Durham do it brilliantly with strong linkes to a great a club cricket scene, but thats not replicated over the country.

I think all 11 of England's football world cup first side are from state schools, its usually 8 out of 11 went to private in the test team. when 93% of the country is state educated

ECB can do loads to increase participation and pathways, and try and reduce costs for kids who cant afford kits or nets

Sorry dont agree at all.


I am keeping out of the match thread, but cant undertsand your point on England's battin btw, it doesnt match the results we've had...

we chased 378 against India,we chased 300 aainst NZ, and scored 530 in the firsy innings, Bairstow scored 140 in the chase.

we scored 500 several times against Pakistan. Brook scored 184 in NZ as we ot 400+

I kind of wonder if I ahve been watching different test matches to everyone else, Bairstow scored 6 100s last year and Brook scored 5. Roots average has gone up to 67 under Stokes. we consistently score more runs than we have in years and years.

yet everyone seems to have just either forgotten it or ignored it

There are things that the ECB will attempt to do to improve it and rightly so. But you can absolutely bet your bottom dollar that the class system will ensure that the most privileged will remain over represented at every level of the county game (particularly in other parts of the country). Unless the ECB have the power to abolish the private school system, the privilege and access to elite coaching and networking will continue to exist. I’m pessimistic on it.

RE the batting approach, I don’t think we’re likely to agree. That’s fair enough. The results last year were good, that’s undeniable. The style was entertaining, that’s also undeniable. I want to believe it’s sustainable and will yield consistent results but I remain skeptical. I think if we go with a gung ho approach in this test, we will find ourselves 2-0 down.

Let’s hope I’m wrong on both issues

 

[MustardAndOnions]

There are things that the ECB will attempt to do to improve it and rightly so. But you can absolutely bet your bottom dollar that the class system will ensure that the most privileged will remain over represented at every level of the county game (particularly in other parts of the country). Unless the ECB have the power to abolish the private school system, the privilege and access to elite coaching and networking will continue to exist. I’m pessimistic on it.

RE the batting approach, I don’t think we’re likely to agree. That’s fair enough. The results last year were good, that’s undeniable. The style was entertaining, that’s also undeniable. I want to believe it’s sustainable and will yield consistent results but I remain skeptical. I think if we go with a gung ho approach in this test, we will find ourselves 2-0 down.

Let’s hope I’m wrong on both issues

But I dont agree its been gung ho like, there is no way we could have broken all those records just slogging like. We score so many runs. and have done. the bowling is the issue. not the batting. look at the averaes since McCullum took charge and the aount of times we have got over 400, 100s...3 of our record chases.

I understand people get emotional about the ashes. but cant suddenly ignore how well we have batted for 12 months. we'd have got 450 inthe first innings of the first test if theyd want too as well.

This is not aimed at you btw, I just struggle to see how people think we have just slogged it for a year. its been good, positive cricket.

This is the best we've have batted consistently since Cook and Strauss teams.