The afterlife

[Pants]

Why do you keep using we ? . It's really OK for others to believe what they will without having to convince you, It's not a we thing , death is that most individual of relationships despite being ubiquitous
.And don't worry it's safe not to know things were all going to die anyway ...in your terms at least , you will just have to wait and see what karma cares for your human " evidence "

That would be human karma then?

 

[Skandhaless]

That would be human karma then?

The impact of his own specific karma accrued during human life so yes human karma . He's going to need a big test tube

 

[Pants]

The impact of his own specific karma accrued during human life so yes human karma . He's going to need a big test tube

So you're mocking the idea of independently verifiable evidence. But the concept of 'karma' as an actual force is just fine?

 

[dangermows]

I'd bet my house and car on it.

A person who has a modest bang to the head can suffer incurable brain damage. It's very easy to kill somebody while keeping the actual body of the person recognisable. I hope we're at least agreed on that.

If anybody expects us to accept that when the body rots away or is cremated, and the molecules that makes our bodies turn to gas, ash or are consumed worms, maggots or bacteria, that somehow we still exist then I think it's fair to demand some evidence or call it complete bollocks.

It's romantic wishful thinking to say we survive death or we in some way existed before we were born. There is no reliable and testable evidence whatsoever to support it. You may as well claim to be Superman as it would have the same credibility.

Of course it can't disprove something like this. I also can't be 100% sure I'm not an android. Neither can I prove Santa does
not exist. There comes a point though that we need to start living in the real, rational world.

There you go.

 

[Skandhaless]

So you're mocking the idea of independently verifiable evidence. But the concept of 'karma' as an actual force is just fine?

I am mocking the idea of a demanding dependency on proof when facing a future that can't be proved .Karma ( as I make sense of it personally ) being a metaphor for experiencing the perfect failure of that in this case .

 

[Kent_Mackem]

Why do you keep using we ? . It's really OK for others to believe what they will without having to convince you

Of course this OK for people to believe whatever they want. It's also OK to trash silly beliefs that have no evidence.

 

[EchoMan]

Of course this OK for people to believe whatever they want. It's also OK to trash silly beliefs that have no evidence.

If only everyone thought like this. There'd be a lot less trouble in the world.

 

[Pants]

I am mocking the idea of a demanding dependency on proof when facing a future that can't be proved .Karma ( as I make sense of it personally ) being a metaphor for experiencing the perfect failure of that in this case .

It's not about proof. That's for distilleries. It's about evidence and probability.

 

[joemcdokes]

If only everyone thought like this. There'd be a lot less trouble in the world.

I think you have read it wrong, the second bit should say, it's ok not to believe silly beliefs that have no evidence, not to trash them, that causes confrontation.

 

[andyw]

We're just batteries really. We all run out eventually.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

I think you have read it wrong, the second bit should say, it's ok not to believe silly beliefs that have no evidence, not to trash them, that causes confrontation.

Often we need the confrontation. The silly believes are commonly pushed on children. Marketing for the next generation.

 

[EchoMan]

I think you have read it wrong, the second bit should say, it's ok not to believe silly beliefs that have no evidence, not to trash them, that causes confrontation.

The way I read it was that those who have daft beliefs (daft in my opinion of course) should accept that there will be people who trash them. I agree that the trashers should show some restraint.

 

[haway]

Well, I've got not evidence or proof obviously. I'm not religious in the slightest either, but I did grow up round Glastonbury and loved a bit of LSD back in the day. Maybe it was that.

I dunno. I can see how meat just rots away after it's killed. I buy into that, but I just see our bodies as vehicles for our personality and since it could be argued that it's a type of energy, and energy can't be destroyed, just changed from one form to another then I don't think it can just cease to exist. Nor do I reckon there's any sort of consciousness (on a level we can comprehend as humans anyway) after we die mind. Just that part of us lives on. After all, were all made of matter that was created at the Big Bang.

There probably lies the answer. Psychedelics blew quite a lot of my beliefs out the water. More people should take them.

 

[Skandhaless]

Of course this OK for people to believe whatever they want. It's also OK to trash silly beliefs that have no evidence.

Correct , It makes no difference .

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

This scares the shit out of me

I think it scares the shit out of our mind at times perhaps but the mind will go silent early on in the process and with the mind gone so will all of its fears leaving consciousness in a state of incredible clarity and peace.

Want to know what it's like when you die? ... the same as before you are born ... there is nothing.

Before I was born I spent around 9 months in my mother's womb so I think you mean conception rather than birth. I can't remember what that was like but I imagine during the dying process, in which everything I have acquired will dissolve away in reverse sequence, will include the dissolution of what was acquired while I was in the womb. Since conception life has been a process of adding successive transient layers that has covered over what I am at the most fundamental level.

Just as at the beginning when sperm met egg there was bliss, if I could have experienced it, so that will be at the end when I can experience it. We were born in love and will die in love. We will fall into the arms of love (a metaphor). It will be like finally being at home again. Our true home that we had forgotten. What happens after that I have no idea but if anything is eternal it will be this timeless love (bliss), reality (truth) and consciousness.

The beginning and end are the same, so know the beginning and you will know the end.

The answers are in the heart, not the mind.

Can't help but think it's just chemical changes in an oxygen starved brain.

Although that doesn't really tell us much about what the neurological experience will be between the time we stop breathing and when consciousness finally leaves. Cells will initially become silent as the oxygen level falls and then some time later they will reach a point of damage that is not repairable. Before the end of breath there will be a process that we have some understanding of, the external senses will cease to function....loss of sight...loss of hearing... lose of sense of touch....loss of smell and taste. This is the dissolving of the sense elements but then the neurological phase begins. Some parts of the brain will continue to function for slightly longer than others. It is not instant as the brain gradually shuts down. First, aspects of the mind will dissolve as the brain losses its ability to sustain thought....forms...feelings...perceptions and conceptions...compositional factors and volitions, leaving consciousness in a vacuity with no sense of space and time.

This vacuity has been described as the clear light of reality.

The restive state of the universe.

 

[mysticmackem]

Not necessarily reincarnation, but I do believe yer body is just a vessel and that's the part that dies. The rest of you (soul, energy, lifeforce- whatever you want to call it) doesn't cease. It just becomes part of the 'universe'.

If I'm Sunlun till I die, will I not be Sunlun after. Fuck I hope I'm not a Mag. I don't wanna die!!

 

[Moyes and the Boys]

Are you saying a mind never dies?

It's quite possible parts of it do not...

http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v17/n1/abs/nn.3594.html

I'd bet my house and car on it.

A person who has a modest bang to the head can suffer incurable brain damage. It's very easy to kill somebody while keeping the actual body of the person recognisable. I hope we're at least agreed on that.

If anybody expects us to accept that when the body rots away or is cremated, and the molecules that makes our bodies turn to gas, ash or are consumed worms, maggots or bacteria, that somehow we still exist then I think it's fair to demand some evidence or call it complete bollocks.

It's romantic wishful thinking to say we survive death or we in some way existed before we were born. There is no reliable and testable evidence whatsoever to support it. You may as well claim to be Superman as it would have the same credibility.

Of course it can't disprove something like this. I also can't be 100% sure I'm not an android. Neither can I prove Santa does
not exist. There comes a point though that we need to start living in the real, rational world.

There is evidence... perhaps we don't exist as we do now but parts of us do

 

[GK]

Often we need the confrontation. The silly believes are commonly pushed on children. Marketing for the next generation.

Your beliefs are as silly as anybody's on this thread

 

[Pants]

It's quite possible parts of it do not...

http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v17/n1/abs/nn.3594.html

That's got precisely nothing whatsoever to do with the mind surviving death.

 

[Kent_Mackem]

Your beliefs are as silly as anybody's on this thread

Oh dear.

They're not beliefs. They're conclusions... based on evidence. The same evidence that we all have in front of us.

But do feel free to put forward some new evidence that suggests we somehow stay alive after we die.