Sunderland Medical School?



Gaz said:
Maybe if the government made the Nhs somewhere staff wanted to work then so many of them wouldn’t go abroad or outside the nhs.

You can’t blame staff imo when the Nhs is so poor to work in yet they can often get better money and a much better work life balance / lifestyle by going abroad. That is what needs to change, not penalising those who leave
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I’d penalise them for leaving if they received training at the state’s expense. Which I think is reasonable. I agree though, the govt needs to ensure people want to work in the NHS.
 
Frijj said:
I’d penalise them for leaving if they received training at the state’s expense. Which I think is reasonable. I agree though, the govt needs to ensure people want to work in the NHS.
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It would have to be a massive penalty to stop anyone going, even then i honestly don’t think it’ll stop them. In my experience a lot don’t go for money, its more to do with the state of the Nhs.

It needs some massive changes, i’m not sure we’ll ever see them unfortunately or it’ll be too late
 
Frijj said:
If I had my way, it wouldn’t just be nurses. I wouldn’t have tuition fees for anyone entering a degree course that led to NHS employment in a clinical role.

I would however place large penalties on those who abused the system by leaving for private practice before they’d worked long enough to make their training worthwhile.

However, just nurses for the time being. As one of the largest occupations within the NHS, and the considerable workload upon them relative to not great pay, I think paying their fees is about right.
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How long would the dr have to work before being allowed to leave? Longer than say a nurse? All trades are very important. The person in the lab who has paid for their degree allows the nurse to deliver the right care but they get no help at all. It has to be all supported or none of them imo.
Like someone has said, theirs a que of people wanting to join without the bursary so why pay it? I do think all this training should be free however, not just the nurses

Gaz said:
It would have to be a massive penalty to stop anyone going, even then i honestly don’t think it’ll stop them. In my experience a lot don’t go for money, its more to do with the state of the Nhs.

It needs some massive changes, i’m not sure we’ll ever see them unfortunately or it’ll be too late
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Or invest in it so people don’t want to leave?
 
cornish mackem said:
How long would the dr have to work before being allowed to leave? Longer than say a nurse? All trades are very important. The person in the lab who has paid for their degree allows the nurse to deliver the right care but they get no help at all. It has to be all supported or none of them imo.
Like someone has said, theirs a que of people wanting to join without the bursary so why pay it? I do think all this training should be free however, not just the nurses


Or invest in it so people don’t want to leave?
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Yes thats part of the massive changes that i don’t think we’ll see
 
Sir Lancelot said:
LD and Mental Nursing have always had recruitment problems as they are seen as being less glamorous than general nursing or children’s nursing. Hence they give extra money to them. In the old days it used to the psychiatric lead, now it’s a single point increment on the agenda for change pay scales.
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Aye and it's getting much worse now.

Bladecat said:
Apprenticeship degrees will add to this where some existing staff are developed to become degree qualified Registered Nurses. LD is definitely in crisis but the University is working with Trusts to try and address some of the issues.
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They're going back to secondment, which is ok except what that does is dilute the quality of HCAs
 
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Frijj said:
I’d penalise them for leaving if they received training at the state’s expense. Which I think is reasonable. I agree though, the govt needs to ensure people want to work in the NHS.
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The huge problem with your plan is that there are a group of people who graduate from UK medical schools who will never realistically practice clinical medicine.

Best thing for them is to go off and do something else, rather than push them into clinical work for the NHS which they are utterly unsuited for.
 
Frijj said:
So why has the acceptance rate gone up by about 10 percentage points? By definition, nursing has become less competitive and thus easier to gain entry to, as a higher proportion of applicants gain entry.
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Perhaps it is because training places are no longer capped by the number of bursaries? As you have already been told repeatedly, the whole point of removing bursaries was to increase the number of training places. We are seeing that happen, so now you whinge about dilution of quality of applicants. That is frankly rubbish. All nurses must reach the same level in order to qualify as nurses and go on the register. There are no cheats ways onto the register, you either hit the mark or you fail.

There has been huge amounts of complaints that we are training the ‘wrong’ type of nurse ie academically highly qualified. The new system of loans allows those who may not be academic high flyers to at least get onto the course. If they pass then they are exactly the same level as the ones who entered with a string of A*s. It’s where you finish that matters, not where you started.
 
Lankester Merrin said:
The huge problem with your plan is that there are a group of people who graduate from UK medical schools who will never realistically practice clinical medicine.

Best thing for them is to go off and do something else, rather than push them into clinical work for the NHS which they are utterly unsuited for.
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I’m sure that can be worked around. I don’t want my tax funding medical training for the well-to-do only to piss off and practice elsewhere.
 
peachbum said:
Don't pharmacists get MPharm ? ( Not MSc).
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You get Master of science (Msc) for completing your 4 year uni course. You get Master of Pharmacy (Mpharm), when you pass the pre-registration exam (after a year of training) and pay your monies to the GPHC.

pavarotti1980 said:
Sunderland has never been in the the top 10 for pharmacy in terms of the quality of students it produces. Currently 30th
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Not having that mate. It was 3rd best after Nottingham and Manchester when I was there. That was more than a decade ago mind.

Not sure how you can gauge how good a pharmacist a university produces like.

Sir Lancelot said:
Yes they do. I knew it was wrong when I typed it but my mind went blank. I didn't really think it made any difference to the point that I was making though.
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You get both mate.

Sir Lancelot said:
That is a load of rubbish, to be honest. It doesn't distinguish between a course that produces a pharmacist and one that is just chemistry or pharmacology. So, for example, the top university is Cambridge, which only has a graduate pharmacology course and doesn't train pharmacists at all.

To get a more accurate idea about how Sunderland stands in the rankings then you would need to extract all those universities that don't do an MSc in Pharmacy, plus those who do pharmacological courses which don't lead to professional status too. Having done that you would then be able to identify the relative merits of each university that trains pharmacists.

Of course, if you didn't want to bother doing this then you would be very, very wise as ALL MSc pharmacy courses lead to exactly the same qualification, moderated by exactly the same external organisation, and ALL pre registration pharmacists take exactly the same examination in order to gain professional status after their pre reg year. They ALL end up with exactly the same qualification from exactly the same organisation, the GPhC, so it doesn't make the slightest difference where they did their degree.

Historically, Sunderland has always had a very good reputation for pharmacy, and some of the finest and most innovative pharmacists in the country went there. It is completely shameful to try to put them down and sneer at them.
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Great post. It will be lost on people like @pavarotti1980

Not sure why people feel the need to take the piss outta their own supposed city, when we have enough kernts doing the same
 
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Sir Lancelot said:
Perhaps it is because training places are no longer capped by the number of bursaries? As you have already been told repeatedly, the whole point of removing bursaries was to increase the number of training places. We are seeing that happen, so now you whinge about dilution of quality of applicants. That is frankly rubbish. All nurses must reach the same level in order to qualify as nurses and go on the register. There are no cheats ways onto the register, you either hit the mark or you fail.

There has been huge amounts of complaints that we are training the ‘wrong’ type of nurse ie academically highly qualified. The new system of loans allows those who may not be academic high flyers to at least get onto the course. If they pass then they are exactly the same level as the ones who entered with a string of A*s. It’s where you finish that matters, not where you started.
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I never said they were cheating their way onto the register. I said the acceptance rate for nursing had shot up. Do you dispute that fact?

If all nurses who get onto the register are of the same quality, there are no bad nurses then?

We could increase training places and have the bursary but the state won’t pay for that.

It will pay for HS2, pointless elections and bribes to the DUP to cling onto power though.

The Royal College of Nursing are against the bursary changes in their current form, claiming it hasn’t been properly tested or reviewed prior to implementation and say:

“Bursaries are a vital financial support that help many nursing students, from a wide range of social and economic backgrounds, to complete their studies and go on to be the nurses of the future.”

Heads of several nursing schools do not believe the extra training places will materialise:

Government ‘reneging on promise to fund 10,000 extra nursing places’

It’s a shambles. You can dress it up by saying it’s to increase the number of nurses but it’s just a money saving exercise, like almost everything else this government and Jeremy f***ing Hunt have put in place.

This is without evening considering the numbers leaving the NHS each year and the huge shortfall in nurses caused by this government and it’s policies.

Of course you will come back as you always do and praise the Tory ***** as if you know better than the Royal College of Nursing and people who actually teach nursing or run universities!
 
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Lankester Merrin said:
Best way to stop that happening is to make the NHS a great place to practice medicine.
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Great News on the Medical School

I wouldnt hold your breath about the NHS being a great place to work soon or in the near future - that will require a complete change of policy from central government that I don't see happening

I am now in Canada after 25years in the NHS and its like being able to breathe air again after nearly drowning compared to home
 
Lankester Merrin said:
Most people who have debated the NHS on here will know they I have very strong views about how few people from the North East become Drs

How would people feel about Sunderland bidding for a medical school? What if there was a campaign to develop one alongside the City of Culture bid?

Could they cure Jan Kirchoff?
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I think that would be great, my 7 year old wants to be a Doctor and a Ninja :lol:.
 
Lankester Merrin said:
Best way to stop that happening is to make the NHS a great place to practice medicine.
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And it might already be too late for that imo

RichB said:
Great News on the Medical School

I wouldnt hold your breath about the NHS being a great place to work soon or in the near future - that will require a complete change of policy from central government that I don't see happening

I am now in Canada after 25years in the NHS and its like being able to breathe air again after nearly drowning compared to home
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I know several people who’ve gone abroad to Practice, and thats exactly how they feel too. Good luck over there, at least you will be appreciated
 
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Bladecat said:
I lost one of my staff as she moved to Liverpool with her Sunderland Media Studies graduate husband, because he got a job working for LFC TV
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Pleased to hear he's doing well my son went to Bouremouth and did TV and film production and now has good job in that there London.

look out piano said:
I think that would be great, my 7 year old wants to be a Doctor and a Ninja :lol:.
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:cool:

When mine was little he wanted to be an ice cream man :lol:
 

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