Sam Greenwood
- Thread starter 10 Gary Rowells
- Start date
The Cabbage
Striker
Think the U21 is still useful, but definitely cap the numbers. Limit loanees absolutely. The other thing that should be done is that academies should benefit far more from future sales. Sell-on fees should be prohibitively high. The current trend of teams (even the likes of Arsenal) feeling forced to give first team minutes to literal children in order to protect against vulture academies needs to be dealt with as a priority.
Aside from that, the way that current SAFC works is a very good hedge against this sort of thing. A genuine, lasting commitment to giving young players a chance is massively important. The interesting thing for me is the next phase for SAFC, where we almost have too many promising young players and not enough minutes to go around.
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tunstallhill
Striker
someone put some stats up on here years ago when this subject was brought up, and most of the england team at the time (the younger lads anyway) had played upwards of 100 first team games by the time they were 20/21
henderson and pickford for instance... they played at all different levels for different clubs, but crucially in their first teams from a young age. think both had played well over 100 games by the time they started playing premier league footy. pickfords record:
sunderland 31 games
darlington 17
alfreton 12
burton 12
carlisle 18
bradford 33
preston 24
think he was 22 when he went to everton. thats how its done
henderson and pickford for instance... they played at all different levels for different clubs, but crucially in their first teams from a young age. think both had played well over 100 games by the time they started playing premier league footy. pickfords record:
sunderland 31 games
darlington 17
alfreton 12
burton 12
carlisle 18
bradford 33
preston 24
think he was 22 when he went to everton. thats how its done
Nathan Gunn
Midfield
Have any of the academy lads who left at that time managed to break through. I know it's early days still for some of them, but Greenwood, Hugill, Pye etc should all be playing regular mens football by now you'd think.
How is Luca Stephenson getting on at Liverpool?
No where near enough young players go out on loan when they should. Ethan Robson was talked about for years as a very highly rated young player for us. But he never went out on loan, and made him debut for our first team aged 22. He'd only ever played 23s football up to that point. Compare that to someone like Dan Neil. It's no coincidence those players tend to achieve more than the lads who were happy in 23s football
How is Luca Stephenson getting on at Liverpool?
JP was almost the model example of growing a player. We knew from a young age he was a special talent, and made sure as soon as we could we got him out on loan and playing football. If you look at the route he took as well, Burton, Carlisle, Bradford, PReston. He literally jumped up a league with each season that went by and proved himself. Then got his chance with us in the premier league.
No where near enough young players go out on loan when they should. Ethan Robson was talked about for years as a very highly rated young player for us. But he never went out on loan, and made him debut for our first team aged 22. He'd only ever played 23s football up to that point. Compare that to someone like Dan Neil. It's no coincidence those players tend to achieve more than the lads who were happy in 23s football
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we three kings
Midfield
Fwiw ( nowt )and tin hat on but I think he would have flourished in our current site up -with his good mate DN to help -and TM to guide him .
He’s gone into a side obviously low on confidence which won’t help him settle at all.
He’s gone into a side obviously low on confidence which won’t help him settle at all.
kildaremackem
Striker
yeah it was the policy of the youth coaches or whoever under Short that the young uns shouldnt go on loan..which is madness..
The Cabbage
Striker
If the price was right I'd have him back now. A couple of years ago Speakman made a comment along the lines of young players always having a home here. Greenwood has talent and I'd bet that the current SAFC could get it out of him even if the last few years have been a bit stagnant for him. Same with Hugill.
10 Gary Rowells
Striker
What I am pondering is whether Greenwood made the correct choice. He came through with Dan Neil, who has played well over 100 games and getting better and better. Greenwood, who was more highly rated went to Arsenal and then Leeds and has had very little football and you can argue the lack of first team football is why he is stagnating.
They are all coming up to the age of 20 and none of them have broken through yet. They probably would have had they stayed. I think Stephenson has gone to Barrow on loan which seems like a good move. Pye has now left Man Utd for Burnley but was announced as an signing for their U21s which doesn't sound so good. With him turning 20 next month surely he needs first team football not U21s. I am sure one or two will break through at their clubs, maybe Hugill or Okoronkwo at Everton. These lads are clearly very talented. I guess my overall point was that you would expect to see one or two of them come through by now and, with Greenwood, the lack of first team football is a big worry in terms of their development.
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The Cabbage
Striker
I think it's difficult to quantify. Neil has succeeded, true. Mumba had to leave to succeed - and took a knock in development along the way. Other players from that cohort didn't fare as well (or even survive) the Madrox era (eg Almond, Diamond and before them Molyneaux and Hume). It's also worth bearing in mind that the choice presented to these kids was between the chance of success (or being buried) at a PL academy versus sticking with a broken club under the stewardship of owners who were actively trying to cash in on them. It's reductive to talk about if these lads have made errors. Given the choice available to them at the time, I don't blame any of them for moving one bit.
viccarlton
Striker
Rigg’s time to turn his back on Sunderland and move on has yet to come.
Durham lad
Central Defender
Hugill also worries me as every game I've seen him play, he's more content fighting and haggling than playing the game
tynevalleyblackcat
Striker
The lad sounds like exactly the sort we would be looking to pick up on the cheap and nurture back to full value.
Arfa Sleep
Winger
I think Stephenson is on loan at Barrow, not sure how he's doing mind.
wrighty
Striker
Harsh to include Bridges in that list given it was a series of injuries that did for him
Pop
Striker
People say this all the time, based on what? He’s barely played.
The fact Leeds shipped him out to a promotion rival doesn’t reflect well.
I see the MEN are reporting that we're keeping an eye on Hugill with a view to doing something in January but also that he impressed ten Haag in pre season and is in line for a 3 year contract with the club having an additional year option.
Hasn’t played in a league game yet. Maybe this weekend?
Whitburnmakem
Winger
Do you not see the downside in that? they are training at poor facilities picking up shit habits training with lower league players sometimes it’s of more benefit to remain at your club and train on a daily basis with better players and coaches
It’s the press that make these comparisons not the managers and coaches
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