Rory Burns

smoker said:
Boom, nail on the head.

He's like a modern day Wayne Larkins: fantastic at county level but never really had the talent to be a test batsman.

I don't know how you coach a player with Burns technique to reach the next level as it's so damn ugly you have nothing to work with. Either his default game is useful to the team, or somebody better comes along and you get rid. Sibley is in the same boat, but he seems to have a strong defensive game and the mindset to bat for hours, which is valuable.

That was the series where you finally thought it clicked for him. His position was in serious doubt before this. Then followed it up with good performances in NZ, SA and at home Vs the West Indies. From then on shite again.
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I think with this debate it’s needs to be taken into account what other opening options we have, and imo out of all them Burns is better than the rest
smoker said:
Boom, nail on the head.

He's like a modern day Wayne Larkins: fantastic at county level but never really had the talent to be a test batsman.

I don't know how you coach a player with Burns technique to reach the next level as it's so damn ugly you have nothing to work with. Either his default game is useful to the team, or somebody better comes along and you get rid. Sibley is in the same boat, but he seems to have a strong defensive game and the mindset to bat for hours, which is valuable.

That was the series where you finally thought it clicked for him. His position was in serious doubt before this. Then followed it up with good performances in NZ, SA and at home Vs the West Indies. From then on shite again.
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I think with this debate it’s needs to be taken into account what other opening options we have, and imo out of all them Burns is better than the rest
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Yes I agree totally although his record at test level not great however the way he played in the Ashes against brilliant on fire bowlers like Cummins, Hazelwood etc, suggested he has the talent to play at the top level.

Cricket all about opinions but don’t think Sibley would have performed as well against that quality attack.

And it was good for him imo he made his debut after that series

Should be our first choice option to open for me
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Yup, 100% agree mate. For me, that series showed he can hack Test cricket and then some
The Rat said:
He needs runs like at test level mind, he is fairly lucky to have played so many games for his record IMO, 30.7 average, not good enough lets be honest, after a promising period, not much higher than what a lot of lads god dropped for.

Certain starter for me still but he really needs to consistently score runs

my biggest issue with him, is that for someone who has based his game on batting long periods of time, he gets out mostly to such lazy shots.

really hope he does btw, as we have invested a lot of time in him, really could do with him stepping up as a senior batsman, which he is now


Agreed, dangerous game if we pick based on that Indian tour, I just hope they dont have too many mental scars!
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Oh aye he definitely needs runs, but then I think all the top three do.

The annoying thing is he doesn't do it at county level - it's almost like a hangover from the Bayliss days of thinking once he's in, he has to try to up the tempo. Needs to iron it out of his game
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Yes I agree totally although his record at test level not great however the way he played in the Ashes against brilliant on fire bowlers like Cummins, Hazelwood etc, suggested he has the talent to play at the top level.

Cricket all about opinions but don’t think Sibley would have performed as well against that quality attack.

And it was good for him imo he made his debut after that series

Should be our first choice option to open for me
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he did no better than Denly really in the ashes mind
 
Voice of fair play said:
think with this debate it’s needs to be taken into account what other opening options we have, and imo out of all them Burns is better than the rest
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Best of a bad lot is (or rather was) a good description, but there are a lot of good young openers now appearing on the scene, not to mention Hameed sorting himself out. The question is how long you persidt with a player who is never going to improve and you take a short term hit for long term gain
 
Tin hat on and all that and this isn’t probably going to be an opinion shared by the majority but personally I think Stoneman is a better option of the two. Better technique and arguably temperament imo.
Burns did do well in the last Ashes so credit to him for that but as the rat says he gets out to lazy/daft shots (see India) and his technique just leaves me thinking he’s got an error in him at any moment.
 
Salem Street South said:
Tin hat on and all that and this isn’t probably going to be an opinion shared by the majority but personally I think Stoneman is a better option of the two. Better technique and arguably temperament imo.
Burns did do well in the last Ashes so credit to him for that but as the rat says he gets out to lazy/daft shots (see India) and his technique just leaves me thinking he’s got an error in him at any moment.
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Rocky has done fuck all for Surrey for about three years, while Rory has almost singlehandedly at times carried us...
 
Salem Street South said:
Has Burns played much the last two summers? Been with England most of it.
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To be honest burns does seem to out score stoneman when they bat together. But I know what ur saying about stoneman and surprised he doesn't get much of a mention. Seems with openers once you've had your chance that's it. Yet with bowlers we seem to have a bit more patience, Overton etc
 
Salem Street South said:
Tin hat on and all that and this isn’t probably going to be an opinion shared by the majority but personally I think Stoneman is a better option of the two. Better technique and arguably temperament imo.
Burns did do well in the last Ashes so credit to him for that but as the rat says he gets out to lazy/daft shots (see India) and his technique just leaves me thinking he’s got an error in him at any moment.
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I've been a big supporter of Rocky on here for many years however hes 34 now and only just returning to form after not really contributing much at county level since he was dropped by England. Its become clear the struggles he has had with his youngun but nonetheless I think his ship has probably sailed re England.
 
leecoo said:
To be honest burns does seem to out score stoneman when they bat together. But I know what ur saying about stoneman and surprised he doesn't get much of a mention. Seems with openers once you've had your chance that's it. Yet with bowlers we seem to have a bit more patience, Overton etc
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Yeah true.

I feel he was unlucky to be discarded when he was and I honestly think if he’d converted one of his 50s to a century he might well have nailed a spot down and be on the way to 50-60 caps by now.
 
smoker said:
Best of a bad lot is (or rather was) a good description, but there are a lot of good young openers now appearing on the scene, not to mention Hameed sorting himself out. The question is how long you persidt with a player who is never going to improve and you take a short term hit for long term gain
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Just my personal opinion mate but would have Hameed no where near the side.

Hameed and Sibley opening would be my worst nightmare
 
rentaghost said:
I've been a big supporter of Rocky on here for many years however hes 34 now and only just returning to form after not really contributing much at county level since he was dropped by England. Its become clear the struggles he has had with his youngun but nonetheless I think his ship has probably sailed re England.
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Good post and can’t really argue except he’s not 34 till next month ;) I don’t necessarily think his age is too much of an issue for me personally however.

It’s not unusual for players who get a go at Test level and then get dropped to go through a dip in form when returned to their county, and like you say there’s been other factors off the pitch for him to contend with.

I do think though as said above he was unlucky to be discarded. 5 50s in 11 Tests - with 2 in Oz and 2 in NZ - is not a bad return for someone finding their way IMO and he looked solid technically, to me.
 
Salem Street South said:
Good post and can’t really argue except he’s not 34 till next month ;) I don’t necessarily think his age is too much of an issue for me personally however.

It’s not unusual for players who get a go at Test level and then get dropped to go through a dip in form when returned to their county, and like you say there’s been other factors off the pitch for him to contend with.

I do think though as said above he was unlucky to be discarded. 5 50s in 11 Tests - with 2 in Oz and 2 in NZ - is not a bad return for someone finding their way IMO and he looked solid technically, to me.
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I like watching him bat. Dead still at the crease, technically good and a lovely timer of the ball. At the time he played Pakistan at home tho his brain was a bit scrambled and looked out of sorts. He can be proud of his efforts in those early Ashes tests and I think him and Bairstow were the only ones who averaged 40 on those difficult NZ pitches. He did OK but I expect with Burns and Sibley around now they will look to the next generation and that’s fair enough. He’s a bit of a sitting duck for a decent spinner as well at times but he’s in good company there.
 
rentaghost said:
I like watching him bat. Dead still at the crease, technically good and a lovely timer of the ball. At the time he played Pakistan at home tho his brain was a bit scrambled and looked out of sorts. He can be proud of his efforts in those early Ashes tests and I think him and Bairstow were the only ones who averaged 40 on those difficult NZ pitches. He did OK but I expect with Burns and Sibley around now they will look to the next generation and that’s fair enough. He’s a bit of a sitting duck for a decent spinner as well at times but he’s in good company there.
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Agreed.

He just looks more solid and reliable than Burns IMO & if I was putting money on who had the technique so make it at Test level, there’s only one winner. But maybe he’s destined to be one of those that couldn’t quite make it at the top level.

Maybe a mindset thing?
 

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