One out one in is how its going to be

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Grumpy Old Man said:
Share capital, no problem. Donations could see a chunk going off as corporation tax though,
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If they had the intention i suppose they could add the money via share capital. The cynical might say it was delibrately done like this to give the option of not paying it back. Given the lack of clarity and inconsistency in the owners responses looks more than likely to me.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Their own cash flow, I'd have thought.
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And that's always been a point. Sometimes , owners are expected to dip into their pockets to achieve promotion. We are not talking about short and pure recklessness but some investment. I do worry that these 2 simply expected a quicker flip and not to risk their own capital.
 
kildaremackem said:
but you highlighted 6-8 signings as something that hasnt happened-when it has. whether they are quality is another matter and somehting more subjective-but they have signed six new first team players..and the widonw isnt shit..so they did what they promised.
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Behave man. And bare in mind I've said on here I believe we don't need to make as many signings as Donald suggested.
 
studs said:
If they had the intention i suppose they could add the money via share capital. The cynical might say it was delibrately done like this to give the option of not paying it back. Given the lack of clarity and inconsistency in the owners responses looks more than likely to me.
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The shares would still have to be paid up in cash. It also wouldn't clear the balance between Madrox and SAFC. In Madrox's books, it would increase the cost of investment, and shareholder loans (the cash that would need to be put into Madrox to pay for the shares. In SAFC, it would increase share capital and cash). The only way you could treat it as clearing the balance would be a simultaneous waiver of the debt by SAFC to an equivalent amount of the value of the shares.
 
prehab26 said:
And that's always been a point. Sometimes , owners are expected to dip into their pockets to achieve promotion. We are not talking about short and pure recklessness but some investment. I do worry that these 2 simply expected a quicker flip and not to risk their own capital.
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I'm probably wrong, but isn't it down to wages rather than finding the money to sign someone? Donald could turn round and say there's £2 million to sign such and such, but because we're at our wage limit we couldn't sign them anyway?
 
John J Rambo said:
When the owner first came in, they made it very clear the club needed to be sustainable and couldn't go on spending what it didn't have. Everyone loved that and said they understand and how our club needed to be ran like that. Now because we aren't buying our way out of the league, they're full of shit and liars. The mess we were in can't be sorted quickly and imo many just aren't seeing how tough of a balancing act it is. They've made more than enough funds available so far, for us to have been promoted.
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Paid 3 million for a striker and gave Leadbitter a 2 1/2 year contract.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
The shares would still have to be paid up in cash. It also wouldn't clear the balance between Madrox and SAFC. In Madrox's books, it would increase the cost of investment, and shareholder loans (the cash that would need to be put into Madrox to pay for the shares. In SAFC, it would increase share capital and cash). The only way you could treat it as clearing the balance would be a simultaneous waiver of the debt by SAFC to an equivalent amount of the value of the shares.
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would you agree that Stewart has led fans up the garden path ? just based on his last appearance on the RR podcast , he stated that he is targeting 100 points , we would be having right go this season, if we got rid of one top earner we could potentially bring 8 league 1 level players in , if we didn't het rid of any top earners it wouldn't be an issue , the club is the healthiest in the EFL
Basically he painted a rather rosy picture going forward but this seems to be far from the truth , on top of that he then removes himself from social media before all of this came out i.e minuted of last meeting etc
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
The shares would still have to be paid up in cash. It also wouldn't clear the balance between Madrox and SAFC. In Madrox's books, it would increase the cost of investment, and shareholder loans (the cash that would need to be put into Madrox to pay for the shares. In SAFC, it would increase share capital and cash). The only way you could treat it as clearing the balance would be a simultaneous waiver of the debt by SAFC to an equivalent amount of the value of the shares.
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Im really in two minds.

On one hand having the balls to get into the club at its lowest ebb and deal with all the issues over the last year isnt for the faint hearted.

On the other to say things like the 100 pts, address where we went wrong, without an obvious plan, paid 40m, not sure if paying clubs money back annoys me.

Time will tell put they could be using safc to make an enormous amount of money with little risk in their cashflow doesnt sit easy with me.
 
lozza said:
would you agree that Stewart has led fans up the garden path ? just based on his last appearance on the RR podcast , he stated that he is targeting 100 points , we would be having right go this season, if we got rid of one top earner we could potentially bring 8 league 1 level players in , if we didn't het rid of any top earners it wouldn't be an issue , the club is the healthiest in the EFL
Basically he painted a rather rosy picture going forward but this seems to be far from the truth , on top of that he then removes himself from social media before all of this came out i.e minuted of last meeting etc
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I have no problem with the 100 points - think we should be aiming for that and if we win/come second with 95 then falling short not a problem.

As for the rest the club is a fairly good place but that isn't what the majority of fans want, they want Championship spending (players, fees, wages) in L1 they want to be Man City and romp it, while not caring about the mundane financial elements facing the majority of clubs.

A slight improvement on last season and no-one care. If we don't, staying off Twitter won't save SD.
 
lozza said:
would you agree that Stewart has led fans up the garden path ? just based on his last appearance on the RR podcast , he stated that he is targeting 100 points , we would be having right go this season, if we got rid of one top earner we could potentially bring 8 league 1 level players in , if we didn't het rid of any top earners it wouldn't be an issue , the club is the healthiest in the EFL
Basically he painted a rather rosy picture going forward but this seems to be far from the truth , on top of that he then removes himself from social media before all of this came out i.e minuted of last meeting etc
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Let's just say he let's his enthusiasm get the better of him. He's clearly not a details person. The 100 points target is a plausible aim. Despite the loss of form at the end of the season, we still got 85 points. People are taking far too much from the end of the season. If you target 100 and miss it by 7-8 points, you're still probably promoted; target 90 and miss by the same amount, and you're in the playoffs at best. Operationally (revenues and costs), we aren't in too bad a place; it's simply the that wages are still too high in relation to recurring income. I'd agree that he's too gung-ho, but he probably believed what he was saying at the time.

SAFC11 said:
Do signing on fees impact the wage cap that the efl need us down to?
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It will depend on the wording of each contract. If they're subject to tax and NI, they'll be part of the cap.
 
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Gonzo Mackem said:
I have no problem with the 100 points - think we should be aiming for that and if we win/come second with 95 then falling short not a problem.

As for the rest the club is a fairly good place but that isn't what the majority of fans want, they want Championship spending (players, fees, wages) in L1 they want to be Man City and romp it, while not caring about the mundane financial elements facing the majority of clubs.

A slight improvement on last season and no-one care. If we don't, staying off Twitter won't save SD.
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I'm not saying it's not achievable and I deffo dont expect us to be throwing money round , my point was really that what Stewart said in the podcast isnt really the reality we find ourselves in
Maybe part of the reason he and CM are not on great speaking terms is because of the stuff he says ?
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Their own cash flow, I'd have thought.
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And therein lies the issue. If SAFC stay in League One they will require owner-funding, it's as simple as that. The costs to run the club are too much for it to be any other way. They can bring the wage bill down, of course they can, but if we stay in this division then they're going to need to fund shortfalls. The wage bill has come down considerably from last season already, and there are a lot of contracts up in the summer.

SAFC11 said:
Do signing on fees impact the wage cap that the efl need us down to?
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No
 
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Grumpy Old Man said:
Let's just say he let's his enthusiasm get the better of him. He's clearly not a details person. The 100 points target is a plausible aim. Despite the loss of form at the end of the season, we still got 85 points. People are taking far too much from the end of the season. If you target 100 and miss it by 7-8 points, you're still probably promoted; target 90 and miss by the same amount, and you're in the playoffs at best. Operationally (revenues and costs), we aren't in too bad a place; it's simply the that wages are still too high in relation to recurring income. I'd agree that he's too gung-ho, but he probably believed what he was saying at the time.



It will depend on the wording of each contract. If they're subject to tax and NI, they'll be part of the cap.
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Maybe garden path wasnt the correct term to use , but that's the way it feels when all this came out in the wash
 
lozza said:
I'm not saying it's not achievable and I deffo dont expect us to be throwing money round , my point was really that what Stewart said in the podcast isnt really the reality we find ourselves in
Maybe part of the reason he and CM are not on great speaking terms is because of the stuff he says ?
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I don't think he helps himself or us with some of his comments. Would be good to know what the reality really is. Suppose we will know come 3rd Sept.
 
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