NUFC/Sportwashing


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failure to invest in the squad when we randomly got into Europe,
failure to invest in the academy,
neglect of training ground,
consistently employing out of favour managers or untested coaches like; Keegan, Kinnear, Hughton, Pardew, Carver, McClaren, Bruce
no long term strategy,
Panic buying in January window, rather than sensibly in the summer
Conflict with players/managers who have ambitions for more (Keegan, Shearer, Barton/Nolan/et al, Hughton, Benitez)
Quotes in the press re: cup campaigns being too big a risk, or 'ticking along',
and it is the consensus outside a few on here that it is the case that Mike Ashley has little interest in Newcastle United as long as it remains a top flight side.

Maybe this failure to invest in the squad when 'randomly' getting into Europe was down to the fact the squad was invested in prior to getting into Europe? That season you brought in Yohane Cabaye, Papiss Cisse, Demba Ba & Davide Santon, smart investment was made that year and you had a good side. You all seem to tell us how good Hatem Ben Arfa and Cheikh Tiote were, You also had Collocini & Krul that year, alongside those mentioned above so unsure how it was so shocking that that side, made it into Europe. Ashley does not have an endless pit of money, he has admitted this on several occasions, I'm unsure how much clearer he can make it that you need to cut your cloth accordingly.

You then didn't recruit very well the following summer, point accepted, but you then looked to rectify that in January bringing in Debuchy, M'Biwa, Gouffran, Sissoko and M'Babu, which seemed to follow a trend of bringing in promising French players, who at the time, you held a French day for due to the apparent success of Graham Carr, the chief scouts recruitment policy.

The neglect of the training grounds point is accepted, however I also think this point is reeled out in every debate because of the infamous photos of the players cooling off in a paddling pool rather than a luxurious swimming pool - Whether you like it or not, this has little to zero impact on whether a footballer will either make it or not. Over the last few seasons Newcastle have had two academy products in the Longstaff brothers playing Premiership football. You also had an academy graduate that netted the club 35 million for the sale of him to Liverpool. You have an academy graduate in Dummett that would make at least the squad every week, when fit. You have had an academy graduate, Woodman, in goal this season in the Premiership. You have also had players who have came through the academy and went onto have decent careers in Fraizer Forster, James Tavernier & Adam Armstrong. It's an absolute myth that the academy is a non-functioning, unsuccessful unit. It's simply because you haven't got a glamorous training facility.

I'm not really sure how you can list Keegan, Hughton & Pardew when they performed pretty well as managers for Newcastle, regardless of the reputation beforehand. Your current owner also employed Rafa Benitez and his backroom staff who you all worshipped, but again, state Mike Ashley lacks any ambition whatsoever.

I dislike Steve Bruce, I think he's hopeless, but whatever comes out of his mouth is going to be twisted to suit your fans agenda. If he hadn't used the quote 'ticking along' and opted for something more optimistic, he would be berated for being delusional or told to resign if he's not getting the backing that he wants, he literally can't win.

His full quote was actually this " We want to be up amongst the big boys competing at the other end of the table and, unfortunately, that’s not possible at this moment, is it?” said a manager disappointed to be, once again, without the injured Callum Wilson in attack.

“That’s the frustration. Do you not think I want better players? Do you not think I want a better squad and to have the ability to go out and compete at the top end of the transfer market? That’s not possible, so I have to accept it and get on with my job as best I can. In these difficult moments I hope my experience can steer us along the right path. The situation’s not great – I understand that – but that’s where we are.”
 
I personally think he hates you after the dogs abuse you give him despite him saving you and spending hundreds of millions over the last few. After he got rid of Rafa, who would have bankrupted you with his "plan"
If I was him, I'd be so angry. People who pay £30 a weekto be entertained, who have no experience of running a business as big as a premiership club, telling me how to spend my money.
 
They shouldn't look at 2 brief spells of unsustainable spending as a comparison. The lengths some fans have gone to because of PIF is laughable :lol: and I've suspicions some are trying to head it all to get a chunk of the fan base following for possible financial gain.

OK, so you may not want it but many of the Mag fans want to be up there again. I hope the takeover does go through and the £100's of millions doesn't come. I think many fans will get a shock when the big name players aren't being signed on obscene wages. PIF may even want to flip you eventually before the Premier League bubble bursts. This bursting will probably be when the Champions League evolves into the ESL and then you'd have an even harder time appeasing the glory seeking fans.
We can't look at our historical average of 9th? Is 9th too high, too lofty an ambition? Again, for me, if the best version of Newcastle United is 14th, fair enough, but it doesn't seem that's the case, certainly not when clubs with historically lower finishes are aiming for more. Don't you want Sunderland to be the best version of itself. If you return to the top flight and get a couple of seasons of safety under your belt, wouldn't you hope the club shows that they're looking to build on it?

Of course you want the worst possible outcome for Newcastle United. That's part of the reason so many speak in defence of Bruce, or Ashley, it's because they're detrimental to Newcastle United progressing beyond relegation battlers.
1. I could understand that. That would make a lot of sense

2. There are bids on the table this time. Its a much bigger gamble than going down, getting a parachute payment and hopefully coming back up. If you go down, he will not get the interest or amount he wants

3. Staveley is the only one who has spoken on this. The only comment Saudis have made is that they were out.

4. If that's the case. Why not accept the 10m "loss" rather than have to spend money if you go down. Arbitration is in January. If you are in serious relegation trouble no one might want to spend that money and Ashley will have to fork out to keep you up, and probably have to spend more than 10million to do so. That squad is threadbare.
If the potential offers walk away, he will lose if you are relegated.

I just can't understand why if he had credible offers he wouldn't be getting the deal done.

5. We agree on something!

2. He's been open to offers since 2008, there've plenty of credible options. But he likes a gamble. Gambled Carver would keep us up, gambled that McClaren would keep us up, gambled that Benitez would have enough to save us in that season, and so on. He likes a gamble.
3. Lawyers in the CAT case reportedly state PIF are still interested, and the PL lawyers state the bid is still on the table, they're just waiting for someone to sit the O&D test properly. Make no mistake, if PIF came direct tomorrow with a bid that'd fly through, Ashley would sack off Staveley. Or if Staveley came with other investors who weren't offering the same, he'd not be interested.
4.I have no idea, I'd 100% take the bid. If I'm Ashley and want out, I'd eat the £10m loss, sell the club and be done with the whole thing. Instead of risking relegation, £30m investment to get us promoted again, and the inevitable loss of valuation, but Ashley would rather gamble on Bruce keeping us up, getting a pay off from the PL from the CAT case, get the full Saudi bid. It's mental.
5. yup
 
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We can't look at our historical average of 9th? Is 9th too high, too lofty an ambition? Again, for me, if the best version of Newcastle United is 14th, fair enough, but it doesn't seem that's the case, certainly not when clubs with historically lower finishes are aiming for more. Don't you want Sunderland to be the best version of itself. If you return to the top flight and get a couple of seasons of safety under your belt, wouldn't you hope the club shows that they're looking to build on it?

Of course you want the worst possible outcome for Newcastle United. That's part of the reason so many speak in defence of Bruce, or Ashley, it's because they're detrimental to Newcastle United progressing beyond relegation battlers.
Your 'positional' historical average isn't 9th man! 🤣😂 You're clearly talking about top division points and not actual finishing positions in the league. Your average finishing position is summit lke 14th and I hoyed some pretty charts up ages ago in this thread so here they are again to laugh look at!🤣😂

I just did the one from 1947 onwards for league positions for us, the Mags, the 'big' 6, Everton, West Ham, Aston Villa. For people who don't know, you can pause it and then use the slider to move between years to see how it all moves rather than just watch it. For example, 1992 on all 3 charts is interesting to say the least 🤣

This is the last 15 year average position prior to the year show. So 1961 shows average positions from the 15 seasons between 1947-1961 and so on.

And the last 10 year average position starting with 1956 which is average of 10 seasons from 1947-1956.

This below is paused on 1992 showing the previous 10 years average position. Watch how the Mags plummet down to 20th's by 1982 and stay there for the next decade and have their brief time in the limelight but then drop again. Man City are interesting how they go up and down and hit bottom in 2002 but fly up to the top by 2018.

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I personally think he hates you after the dogs abuse you give him despite him saving you and spending hundreds of millions over the last few. After he got rid of Rafa, who would have bankrupted you with his "plan" and bored you to death in the process.
I don't doubt he doesn't like us, but fuck him. Oh, 'he' hasn't spent anything, the club has spent what it's made. An outlay in line with other Premier League clubs, so, again, nothing praiseworthy there. I thought you lot insisted Benitez ran for China the minute a fat contract was waved at him?

Let's not forget the litany of mistakes and missteps Ashley has committed, either on purpose or through neglect.
 
I don't doubt he doesn't like us, but fuck him. Oh, 'he' hasn't spent anything, the club has spent what it's made. An outlay in line with other Premier League clubs, so, again, nothing praiseworthy there. I thought you lot insisted Benitez ran for China the minute a fat contract was waved at him?

Let's not forget the litany of mistakes and missteps Ashley has committed, either on purpose or through neglect.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
Maybe this failure to invest in the squad when 'randomly' getting into Europe was down to the fact the squad was invested in prior to getting into Europe? That season you brought in Yohane Cabaye, Papiss Cisse, Demba Ba & Davide Santon, smart investment was made that year and you had a good side. You all seem to tell us how good Hatem Ben Arfa and Cheikh Tiote were, You also had Collocini & Krul that year, alongside those mentioned above so unsure how it was so shocking that that side, made it into Europe. Ashley does not have an endless pit of money, he has admitted this on several occasions, I'm unsure how much clearer he can make it that you need to cut your cloth accordingly.
I've no problem with spending what the club makes, but if you know your squad is going to be stretched due to the extra fixtures and travel that comes with competing in Europe, it makes sense to do your recruitment in the summer, rather than January. This was another example of Ashley being disinterested in anything beyond staying in the top flight.
You then didn't recruit very well the following summer, point accepted, but you then looked to rectify that in January bringing in Debuchy, M'Biwa, Gouffran, Sissoko and M'Babu, which seemed to follow a trend of bringing in promising French players, who at the time, you held a French day for due to the apparent success of Graham Carr, the chief scouts recruitment policy.
Had we made that recruitment drive in the summer, we'd not have been in a relegation fight and could well have finished far higher up the league. It was only when we looked in real danger of relegation did Ashley sanction the business.
The neglect of the training grounds point is accepted, however I also think this point is reeled out in every debate because of the infamous photos of the players cooling off in a paddling pool rather than a luxurious swimming pool - Whether you like it or not, this has little to zero impact on whether a footballer will either make it or not. Over the last few seasons Newcastle have had two academy products in the Longstaff brothers playing Premiership football. You also had an academy graduate that netted the club 35 million for the sale of him to Liverpool. You have an academy graduate in Dummett that would make at least the squad every week, when fit. You have had an academy graduate, Woodman, in goal this season in the Premiership. You have also had players who have came through the academy and went onto have decent careers in Fraizer Forster, James Tavernier & Adam Armstrong. It's an absolute myth that the academy is a non-functioning, unsuccessful unit. It's simply because you haven't got a glamorous training facility.
It's not just the paddling pool, it's the whole setup. We don't have the same tools that many PL clubs do in terms of rehabilitation, to combat soft tissue injuries. The facilities haven't been updated in the whole time he's owned the club. 14 years without significant investment is neglect, surely that's irrefutable?

re: the academy it's not about shiny new cones or owt, it's about attracting young talent from wherever we can. It's about not losing our young players to other academies. It's about developing them as players beyond their natural talent. For that you need facilities, a well-rounded coaching setup and so on. Again, no significant investment in 14yrs is neglect.
I'm not really sure how you can list Keegan, Hughton & Pardew when they performed pretty well as managers for Newcastle, regardless of the reputation beforehand. Your current owner also employed Rafa Benitez and his backroom staff who you all worshipped, but again, state Mike Ashley lacks any ambition whatsoever.
Keegan wasn't brought back to the club because he's a manager on the up, he was brought in as a ham-fisted attempt to get the fans on side without due consideration to whether or not he'd be up to the job. Hughton was a promotion from within that paid off, but again it wasn't because he was the best available candidate. Pardew's last role was being fired from League 1 Southampton. They performed ok (Keegan very briefly), but these weren't shrewd appointments, these were risky gambles. Hughton and Pardew were cheap as well. Benitez approached the club, not the other way around and the minute Benitez started wanting more than the minimum Ashley was more than happy to let him go.
I dislike Steve Bruce, I think he's hopeless, but whatever comes out of his mouth is going to be twisted to suit your fans agenda. If he hadn't used the quote 'ticking along' and opted for something more optimistic, he would be berated for being delusional or told to resign if he's not getting the backing that he wants, he literally can't win.

His full quote was actually this " We want to be up amongst the big boys competing at the other end of the table and, unfortunately, that’s not possible at this moment, is it?” said a manager disappointed to be, once again, without the injured Callum Wilson in attack.

“That’s the frustration. Do you not think I want better players? Do you not think I want a better squad and to have the ability to go out and compete at the top end of the transfer market? That’s not possible, so I have to accept it and get on with my job as best I can. In these difficult moments I hope my experience can steer us along the right path. The situation’s not great – I understand that – but that’s where we are.”
Even that points to a manager who wants more depth in his squad, and who is being denied by the owner. Newcastle United remain a wealthy club, yet we're run on a shoestring.

The part of the quote I was referring to was; “I’ve said since I walked through the door two years ago that I’m not going to be everyone’s cup of tea but, with my experience, I hope to keep the club just ticking along, make sure it stays where it is and maintain our Premier League status,” Bruce said.

That is his remit. Last December he said “My remit is to keep Newcastle in the Premier League this season and keep trying to edge the club forward.”

How many times does the manager have to state the remit is survival before some Sunderland fans accept it?
 
That is his remit. Last December he said “My remit is to keep Newcastle in the Premier League this season and keep trying to edge the club forward.”


How many times does the manager have to state the remit is survival before some Sunderland fans accept it?
:lol: That was funny
 
No I'm picking two periods of equal length.

Both periods have their issues. (Oh and I have no sympathy for Ashley as if he'd done his due diligence he'd have seen the f***ing hole in the accounts.)
So to summarise, in the 1st period you spent a fortune, won nothing and ended up in the Premiership. In the 2nd period, you got the finances in order, won nothing and ended up in the Premiership.

Remind me again why the mags are revolting.
 
I've no problem with spending what the club makes, but if you know your squad is going to be stretched due to the extra fixtures and travel that comes with competing in Europe, it makes sense to do your recruitment in the summer, rather than January. This was another example of Ashley being disinterested in anything beyond staying in the top flight.
You do, because that's exactly what the club are doing now and it's spent alot of money recently on the likes of ASM, Joelinton, Willock.

Had we made that recruitment drive in the summer, we'd not have been in a relegation fight and could well have finished far higher up the league. It was only when we looked in real danger of relegation did Ashley sanction the business.
Which happens to many clubs, Newcastle United are not unique. It even happened to us after finishing 10th, We neglected the squad that got us to the best finish since the Reid days.

It's not just the paddling pool, it's the whole setup. We don't have the same tools that many PL clubs do in terms of rehabilitation, to combat soft tissue injuries. The facilities haven't been updated in the whole time he's owned the club. 14 years without significant investment is neglect, surely that's irrefutable?

Is this just guess work? Have you got any quotes from anyone within the club to confirm Newcastle don't have the facilities to 'combat soft tissue injuries'? Genuinally intrigued to see if this has been mentioned by someone within the club to advise your rehabilitation and medical unit isn't that of a standard Premiership outfit.

re: the academy it's not about shiny new cones or owt, it's about attracting young talent from wherever we can. It's about not losing our young players to other academies. It's about developing them as players beyond their natural talent. For that you need facilities, a well-rounded coaching setup and so on. Again, no significant investment in 14yrs is neglect.
Andy Carroll, Longstaff Brothers, Woodman, Dummett, Armstrong etc all came through the academy and represented the first team, Can you let me know who have you lost as an academy prospect that has went on to represent clubs at a higher level or had an outstanding career since?

Keegan wasn't brought back to the club because he's a manager on the up, he was brought in as a ham-fisted attempt to get the fans on side without due consideration to whether or not he'd be up to the job. Hughton was a promotion from within that paid off, but again it wasn't because he was the best available candidate. Pardew's last role was being fired from League 1 Southampton. They performed ok (Keegan very briefly), but these weren't shrewd appointments, these were risky gambles. Hughton and Pardew were cheap as well. Benitez approached the club, not the other way around and the minute Benitez started wanting more than the minimum Ashley was more than happy to let him go.
Ah, So even when Ashleys appointments work, it's got nothing to do with him and no credit should be given yet every appointment that fails, is his fault.

Even that points to a manager who wants more depth in his squad, and who is being denied by the owner. Newcastle United remain a wealthy club, yet we're run on a shoestring.

The part of the quote I was referring to was; “I’ve said since I walked through the door two years ago that I’m not going to be everyone’s cup of tea but, with my experience, I hope to keep the club just ticking along, make sure it stays where it is and maintain our Premier League status,” Bruce said.

That is his remit. Last December he said “My remit is to keep Newcastle in the Premier League this season and keep trying to edge the club forward.”

How many times does the manager have to state the remit is survival before some Sunderland fans accept it?

Are you that braindead that you can't accept / acknowledge that Mike Ashley has stated on several occasions he want's to sell the club, and until he does, the scenario is pretty much going to be the same? Every single person knows that in order for Newcastle to progress from now, they need a change of ownership. That isn't my argument, my point is that Mike Ashley hasn't had a sole aim of only ever surviving since he bough the club in 2007. Ashley is probably one of the longest serving owners in the PL and took over the club when the PL was in a very different financial position to what it now is. He has admitted he hasn't got the financial ability to plough endless amounts of money into the club. How is it a surprise to you that an owner, who's entire empire is dictated by the success of his retail businesses, is unwilling to plough money into an asset, on the back of a global pandemic that absolutely decimated the retail sector? I don't know how a) you can't accept this or b) realise it, when it's so f***ing obvious.
 
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So to summarise, in the 1st period you spent a fortune, won nothing and ended up in the Premiership. In the 2nd period, you got the finances in order, won nothing and ended up in the Premiership.

Remind me again why the mags are revolting.
Because the first period was ambitious, the second is neglect.
 
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