NUFC/Sportwashing


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I should just ignore this but I just can't help myself so can't resist replying to this! :lol:

You finished bottom half 7 of 15 seasons with 2 separate spells of 4 seasons and 3 seasons at the top and then a single season. Instead of looking at the 'false' position of those years due to big spending in a blossoming Premier League money monster, why not look at the 14 years prior to Hall. You spent most of that in Division 2 but had 5 seasons in a row in Division 1, finishing 14th, 11th, 17th, 8th and 20th so just the 1 top half finish.


You mention Leicester but I reckon they will soon revert back in time as they simply won't have the finances to keep up. Look here at Leicester as they look similar to how you did in the late 2000's. They lost last night and if they get booted out of the Europa League then where will the money come from to substain it as they're not looking as good this season on the pitch.

https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threa...r-2021-edition.1557357/page-283#post-34624014

As for Brighton, come back end of season as I don't think they'll maintain that position but they weren't too bad last season. Leeds are having a bit of 2nd season syndrome but should settle. Non big 6 teams have spells anyway as they get players in that click and have a great season so this is why they go up and down the league season after season.

The problem is players move on or get older and the replacement players aren't as good or fit in as well. You had 2 decent spells and it wasn't continous as between it you spent 4 seasons lower half.

Yet some of you wonder why we call the Mags deluded. It's because you 'bought' that brief period of 2 good spells with big transfer fees and wages yet expect 'way' more than what you have now because of those spells. The days of teams spending willy nilly on big transfers/wages in the Premier League have long gone. The revenue wasn't coming in for Hall & Shepherd to maintain the level of spending but they pocketed well over £100m between them so they moved on and left Ashley to pick up the pieces.
I mentioned 14 years because Ashley's reign has been 14 years. And the decline from that to where we find ourselves now is noteworthy.

I think Leicester are in a good place, with a decent manager, a good squad and good decision makers behind the scenes. They recruit well, on the whole and while they've started this season poorly they'll still end up top half. Because of the solid foundations I don't think they're going to falter as badly as we have, unless they change owner.

I don't think it's deluded to want more from the owners than 'ticking along'. There's no hope for more, no ambition beyond survival. There are endless mistakes and missteps off the pitch, which exacerbate the mistakes and missteps on it. The facilities have been neglected for over a decade, there's still a dead pigeon in the netting ffs. Newcastle United are the only top flight team for 100 miles and yet we're losing young lads to other academies. Might be wrong, but I think your academy is a higher grade than ours? Why, when you and Boro were out of the top flight didn't the owner spend a bit of money, make our academy the best in the region and hoover up any talented kid from the Humber to the borders?

For me, it's less about throwing tens of millions around on players and more about a bit of joined up thinking. We're a selling club? Fine, then lets bring players through a quality youth system and play them or sell them. We can only spend what we make? Fine, lets maximise our commercial revenue and sell stakes in the club to investors. It's not f***ing rocket science. You can't run a football club the same way as a high street tat store, it doesn't work like that.
I believe you stand 14th since the start of the League. And not 1992 when you think football was invented.
All time top flight table has us 9th Premier League + 1. Division - All-time league table (you're 10th)
Premier League era has us 8th (you're 17th)
Div 1 has us 9th (you're 6th)
 
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I mentioned 14 years because Ashley's reign has been 14 years. And the decline from that to where we find ourselves now is noteworthy.

I think Leicester are in a good place, with a decent manager, a good squad and good decision makers behind the scenes. They recruit well, on the whole and while they've started this season poorly they'll still end up top half. Because of the solid foundations I don't think they're going to falter as badly as we have, unless they change owner.

I don't think it's deluded to want more from the owners than 'ticking along'. There's no hope for more, no ambition beyond survival. There are endless mistakes and missteps off the pitch, which exacerbate the mistakes and missteps on it. The facilities have been neglected for over a decade, there's still a dead pigeon in the netting ffs. Newcastle United are the only top flight team for 100 miles and yet we're losing young lads to other academies. Might be wrong, but I think your academy is a higher grade than ours? Why, when you and Boro were out of the top flight didn't the owner spend a bit of money, make our academy the best in the region and hoover up any talented kid from the Humber to the borders?

For me, it's less about throwing tens of millions around on players and more about a bit of joined up thinking. We're a selling club? Fine, then lets bring players through a quality youth system and play them or sell them. We can only spend what we make? Fine, lets maximise our commercial revenue and sell stakes in the club to investors. It's not f***ing rocket science. You can't run a football club the same way as a high street tat store, it doesn't work like that.

All time top flight table has us 9th Premier League + 1. Division - All-time league table (you're 10th)
Premier League era has us 8th (you're 17th)
Div 1 has us 9th (you're 6th)
So as Bruce said. Aiming for the Top 10. Your natural position. It's nearly a century since you won the league, nearly 70 for a Cup. You are in your rightful place of survival first then push for Top 10. You are not one of the Big Boys. More a Burnley with more fans.
 
Fucksake man you are unbelievable, you are now going back as far as 1993, nearly 30 years ago to try and justify your current position.

You honestly think your club is some sort of unique position in comparison to every other team, You go on like you are the only club to have a primary aim of remaining in the Premiership.

It's pointless even debating it because you come back with the same shit time and time again that only resonates with other Newcastle fans and not with fans of any other club in the footballing pyramid. The delusion around your club is absolutely insane. 30 years ago Blackburn were competing for League Titles, Nottingham Forest, Aston Villa, Ipswich, Bolton, Ipswich and Norwich were in Europe. Look at where you are now in comparison to that lot, you need to get real and accept times change.

My whole position is that Newcastle United could and should be aiming for more than simply surviving. So should every club that can afford it. However, it's incredibly rare that survival is the sole aim. Burnley are the only other consistent example where survival is the be all and end all.

Some of your colleagues are talking about the entire history of the football league to justify that Newcastle United are 'Where they should be'. As if any club has a divine right to exist in their position in perpetuity.
 
My whole position is that Newcastle United could and should be aiming for more than simply surviving. So should every club that can afford it. However, it's incredibly rare that survival is the sole aim. Burnley are the only other consistent example where survival is the be all and end all.

Some of your colleagues are talking about the entire history of the football league to justify that Newcastle United are 'Where they should be'. As if any club has a divine right to exist in their position in perpetuity.
...and that is entirely your opinion, it does not make your opinion a fact.

You have absolutely zero evidence or proof that Mike Ashley and the manager / board / backroom staff sit and say, we are aiming solely for survival.
 
So as Bruce said. Aiming for the Top 10. Your natural position. It's nearly a century since you won the league, nearly 70 for a Cup. You are in your rightful place of survival first then push for Top 10. You are not one of the Big Boys. More a Burnley with more fans.
Bruce also said, his job is to keep us "ticking along". Well, fuck me that's what I get excited about on the weekend. You say survival then push. There's no appetite for pushing from the boardroom. If there were we could have. When we finished 5th, we had a decent squad that needed a little depth and a better manager. When we had Benitez in charge, there's a top level coach and an all right squad, give him the freedom to spend within the budget on whatever he thinks the squad/club needs. When Benitez left employ a progressive manager who can take the club forward from a defensively solid foundation.

I don't think we're an elite club, but I don't think that we should start every summer expecting a fight against relegation to make up the meat of the season. Leicester fans don't, Villa fans don't, ditto West Ham, Wolves, etc. Why are they allowed to want for more, but Newcastle fans are deluded? Is it because our 'ambitions' have been mutated into demands of Champions League and title challenges by talksport and their ilk?
 
Some of your colleagues are talking about the entire history of the football league to justify that Newcastle United are 'Where they should be'. As if any club has a divine right to exist in their position in perpetuity.
You mentioned the 14 years prior to Ashley. That is, as been repeatedly regurgitated, helped by the huge money coming from the blossoming Premier League. I showed the 14 years prior you were a nothing team with around 5 of those in the top division with just 1 top 10 finish. So yes they are where they should be as the Mags have done nowt for over 50 years apart from spending a shit load breaking transfer fees and wages (Shearer) and having a brief spell at the top.

Not that overall history is a big reflection of now, Blackburn have won the league 3 times, the FA Cup 6 times and League Cup once so not far behind the Mags with 4 Leagues, 6 FA Fa and 0 League Cups. Looking at their spell in the Premier League when it started, they had 8 top 10 placings in the 16 seasons from 1992 onwards and that included a relegation. Yet have they gone on anything like the self entitled Mags have? They're now also replicating the seasons they had prior to the Premier League starting from the 1960's. I'd dare say far more of their fanbase accept they bought that period of success and that it wasn't substainable.

You can't take an average team and chase success and keep it up there without substained investment, unless you recruit well (but aren't all teams trying to recruit?). This is what Leicester have done well and I'm not so sure they will continue to find players to sell on for big money after a good season or two.
 
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...and that is entirely your opinion, it does not make your opinion a fact.

You have absolutely zero evidence or proof that Mike Ashley and the manager / board / backroom staff sit and say, we are aiming solely for survival.
failure to invest in the squad when we randomly got into Europe,
failure to invest in the academy,
neglect of training ground,
consistently employing out of favour managers or untested coaches like; Keegan, Kinnear, Hughton, Pardew, Carver, McClaren, Bruce
no long term strategy,
Panic buying in January window, rather than sensibly in the summer
Conflict with players/managers who have ambitions for more (Keegan, Shearer, Barton/Nolan/et al, Hughton, Benitez)
Quotes in the press re: cup campaigns being too big a risk, or 'ticking along',
and it is the consensus outside a few on here that it is the case that Mike Ashley has little interest in Newcastle United as long as it remains a top flight side.
 
This. It’s the self entitlement that makes me laugh. ‘All we want is a team that tries’ nonsense. This whole takeover was about one thing, they thought they were the new Man City, simple as
Not one of them is bothered about what their prospective new owners are and stand for, forget piracy these people Are murderers, believe women have no rights homophobic the list is endless.
But no it’s the premier league that are the real bad guys
this is absolute nonsense to any normal human, you could put 11 fans out who would try, you could be in national league and all players would be trying and that would answer your demands ??????
You wouldn't accept it though, so don't put it on your kin banners.
 
I mentioned 14 years because Ashley's reign has been 14 years. And the decline from that to where we find ourselves now is noteworthy.
So basically you’re comparing a period when the previous owners were throwing money around like confetti and took the club to the brink of possible administration, with a period when another owner came along and had to pick up the pieces of their attempt to buy a trophy and had to stabilise the club and make it financially viable again.
 
You mentioned the 14 years prior to Ashley. That is, as been repeatedly regurgitated, helped by the huge money coming from the blossoming Premier League. I showed the 14 years prior you were a nothing team with around 5 of those in the top division and just 1 top 10 finish. So yes they are where they should be as the Mags have done nowt for over 50 years apart from spending a shit load breaking transfer fees and wages (Shearer) and having a brief spell at the top.

Not that overall history is a big reflection of now, Blackburn have won the league 3 times, the FA Cup 6 times and League Cup once so not far behind the Mags with 4 Leagues, 6 FA Fa and 0 League Cups. Looking at their spell in the Premier League when it started, they had 8 top 10 placings in the 16 seasons from 1992 onwards and that included a relegation. Yet have they gone on anything like the self entitled Mags have? They're now also replicating the seasons they had prior to the Premier League starting from the 1960's. I'd dare say far more of their fanbase accept they bought that period of success and that it wasn't substainable.
So, your contention is that clubs should look at where they've been across 50 years (not 28 as that's not a big enough sample size and not more as that's not a big reflection of now), and from that glean their 'natural position' and have no ambition to do better?

Throwing silly money about isn't the only way to show ambition.
 
In the 14 years prior to Ashley's purchase we spent 8 years in European competition (9 if you count Cup winners Cup, more if you count the Intertwobob), 8 top half finishes.
What about the years prior to the Hall/Shepherd regime..??

The Hall/Shepherd regime was the exception not the norm and left the club on the brink of administration before Freddie pulled the wool over Ashley's eyes.
 
So basically you’re comparing a period when the previous owners were throwing money around like confetti and took the club to the brink of possible administration, with a period when another owner came along and had to pick up the pieces of their attempt to buy a trophy and had to stabilise the club and make it financially viable again.
No I'm picking two periods of equal length.

Both periods have their issues. (Oh and I have no sympathy for Ashley as if he'd done his due diligence he'd have seen the f***ing hole in the accounts.)
 
What about the years prior to the Hall/Shepherd regime..??

The Hall/Shepherd regime was the exception not the norm and left the club on the brink of administration before Freddie pulled the wool over Ashley's eyes.
Shepherd didn't want to sell, so why would he pull the wool over Ashley's eyes?

by the by, I am fascinated by the perceived wisdom on here that Mike Ashley was the only way the club would have survived financially post Hall & Shepherd.
 
So, your contention is that clubs should look at where they've been across 50 years (not 28 as that's not a big enough sample size and not more as that's not a big reflection of now), and from that glean their 'natural position' and have no ambition to do better?

Throwing silly money about isn't the only way to show ambition.
They shouldn't look at 2 brief spells of unsustainable spending as a comparison. The lengths some fans have gone to because of PIF is laughable :lol: and I've suspicions some are trying to head it all to get a chunk of the fan base following for possible financial gain.

OK, so you may not want it but many of the Mag fans want to be up there again. I hope the takeover does go through and the £100's of millions doesn't come. I think many fans will get a shock when the big name players aren't being signed on obscene wages. PIF may even want to flip you eventually before the Premier League bubble bursts. This bursting will probably be when the Champions League evolves into the ESL and then you'd have an even harder time appeasing the glory seeking fans.
 
1. Dunno, probably the price, also rumours that SportsDirect wants to branch out into the middle east and having a relationship with the Crown Prince of the country would help on that front.
2. You're not wrong, but Ashley's gambled on staying up before, he'll do it again.

3. it's not Staveley, it's the Saudis.

4. They might be less, but acceptably so. e.g if he can sell for £340m instead of £350m, that's a credible bid, no?

5. He should, but he won't. The f***ing irony of Mike Ashley's legal team demanding transparency from the PL is not lost on me.

1. I could understand that. That would make a lot of sense

2. There are bids on the table this time. Its a much bigger gamble than going down, getting a parachute payment and hopefully coming back up. If you go down, he will not get the interest or amount he wants

3. Staveley is the only one who has spoken on this. The only comment Saudis have made is that they were out.

4. If that's the case. Why not accept the 10m "loss" rather than have to spend money if you go down. Arbitration is in January. If you are in serious relegation trouble no one might want to spend that money and Ashley will have to fork out to keep you up, and probably have to spend more than 10million to do so. That squad is threadbare.
If the potential offers walk away, he will lose if you are relegated.

I just can't understand why if he had credible offers he wouldn't be getting the deal done.

5. We agree on something!
 
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failure to invest in the squad when we randomly got into Europe,
failure to invest in the academy,
neglect of training ground,
consistently employing out of favour managers or untested coaches like; Keegan, Kinnear, Hughton, Pardew, Carver, McClaren, Bruce
no long term strategy,
Panic buying in January window, rather than sensibly in the summer
Conflict with players/managers who have ambitions for more (Keegan, Shearer, Barton/Nolan/et al, Hughton, Benitez)
Quotes in the press re: cup campaigns being too big a risk, or 'ticking along',
and it is the consensus outside a few on here that it is the case that Mike Ashley has little interest in Newcastle United as long as it remains a top flight side.
I personally think he hates you after the dogs abuse you give him despite him saving you and spending hundreds of millions over the last few. After he got rid of Rafa, who would have bankrupted you with his "plan" and bored you to death in the process.
 
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