Need to drive Ellis out of Sunderland.

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RedFlag1308 said:
The argument that he has backed his managers is equivalent to giving your lass £7.50 to do a weekly shop and then wondering why your 3 kids are dropping down dead from malnutrition. But but but she wasted the whole budget on rice.
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So you're okay with the debt level? It's quite reasonable after a decade in the prem? Would you be happy if it was £500m?
 
WHD said:
So you're okay with the debt level? It's quite reasonable after a decade in the prem? Would you be happy if it was £500m?
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Debt level is relative to income. It's intimidating when your club earns fuck all, like ours. Successful clubs earn more. You've got to spend money to make money. Debt isn't even a bad thing per se providing your creditors believe you can pay it back and are a growing business, there is a reason why it is only shit failing clubs that go into administration and clubs with much greater debt such as Man Utd don't. If we had 500m worth of talent on the pitch I'd be happy with the debt level being 500m, because a couple of years of champions league would be clearing that anyway. This is largely irrelevant aswel as loan to buy isn't the approach I advocate. The 500m should be coming directly from Ellis Shorts portfolio leaving us with zero debt. Just like what happened at city or Chelsea. It's possible, it is just a choice that it isn't. Football club owners aren't in the game to make profit believe me. Either put up or fuck off. And that applies to every owner in the country.
 
RedFlag1308 said:
Debt level is relative to income. It's intimidating when your club earns fuck all, like ours. Successful clubs earn more. You've got to spend money to make money. Debt isn't even a bad thing per se providing your creditors believe you can pay it back and are a growing business, there is a reason why it is only shit failing clubs that go into administration and clubs with much greater debt such as Man Utd don't. If we had 500m worth of talent on the pitch I'd be happy with the debt level being 500m, because a couple of years of champions league would be clearing that anyway. This is largely irrelevant aswel as loan to buy isn't the approach I advocate. The 500m should be coming directly from Ellis Shorts portfolio leaving us with zero debt. Just like what happened at city or Chelsea. It's possible, it is just a choice that it isn't. Football club owners aren't in the game to make profit believe me. Either put up or fuck off. And that applies to every owner in the country.
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So basically Short should have put in £500m of his own money, and if he did we would have got into the champions leauge?
 
ProfessionalMackem said:
Both, he's incompetent at owning a football club and the decisions surrounding the running of it. If like other posters have mentioned that the net spend roughly that of the debt, then that equates to around 14M per season. Hardly pushing the boat out or spending beyond our means.



You wouldn't happen to know the income for the last 10 years would you?
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For the period 2007-16 I have: Turnover £766.5m, yielding an operating loss of £3.1m. Transfer cash (not the same as fees due to timing of instalments) in £125.8m, out £309.9m.
 
safc_grindon said:
We hired managers, who most people were relatively happy with at the time, they didn't work out, we had to pay them off. We also signed a load of players - same drill, they didn't work, we lost money.

Honestly, I've got no problem at all with people wanting someone new to come in - I guess the thinking is the new people will lavish cash, and it'll all be rosy. Here's hoping.

But let's not get carried away with utter shite about the current owner trying to rob us, or in it for cash, or any of the other histrionics being bandied about on here. It's f***ing insane.
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Sounds like the people defending him are giving him a free ride for all the mistakes he's made or for not knowing how to run a football club.
 
RedFlag1308 said:
Basically aye. Or near enough to it. Preferably more so we could win the league. I support safc not Ellis Shorts personal wealth.
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I would have been over the moon if he put in £500m of his own money for transfers, but realistically it was and never is going to happen.

I suspect you are just on a wind up.
 
ProfessionalMackem said:
Sounds like the people defending him are giving him a free ride for all the mistakes he's made or for not knowing how to run a football club.
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What do you want to do, string him up? He invested millions, it didn't work. Do you think he wanted it to fail? Is that why he invested all that money - so he could watch it fail?

He tried, he failed. Any of his managerial appointments had worked, and you'd think he was a saint (and I think had Big Sam had still been here, we'd have been in a much better position.

I'm not saying build a statue to him, far from it, but going on like he's evil is just ludicrous.

RedFlag1308 said:
Basically aye. Or near enough to it. Preferably more so we could win the league. I support safc not Ellis Shorts personal wealth.
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Yet you'd piss your pants if the price of the pies went up. I'd love it if he spent billions on us - chucked up all his wealth. We're not in a position to demand it, of him or anyone.
 
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He may have lost millions, but just completely giving up and leaving the club in an absolute mess is the issue. Also he's had his chance to get out but it was "in the clubs" interests that he didn't... Hard to think how new owners could have been worse than him
 
He's a f***ing idiot when it comes to running football clubs and his lack of planning employing f***ing amateurs will cost us, however he hasn't been tight.

In fact if the useless twat had a semblance of planning/strategy he wouldn't have wasted so much. But Ryan Sachs et al needed a job so it will cost Short more in the long term to help his marras out.
 
shepherd88 said:
He's a f***ing idiot when it comes to running football clubs and his lack of planning employing f***ing amateurs will cost us, however he hasn't been tight.

In fact if the useless twat had a semblance of planning/strategy he wouldn't have wasted so much. But Ryan Sachs et al needed a job so it will cost Short more in the long term to help his marras out.
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Good post
 
Sums the Club up and the shite coming out of there.....3 shots on target!

safc.com’s Sam Lightle reflects on Sunderland’s disappointing defeat to Nottingham Forest at the Stadium of Light last night.

FRONT FOOT

It was a night where Sunderland did everything but score. In the end, they were dealt a cruel blow by former Black Cats Daryl Murphy, who clinically finished after fending off Ty Browning’s challenge and finding the far corner of Robbin Ruiter’s goal. But it should’ve been a very different story. While Forest saw the bulk of possession, Sunderland’s direct approach saw them ask more questions of the visitors backline with Lewis Grabban, George Honeyman and Callum McManaman all going close in the opening period. Chances continued to rain in as the second period wore on, and as you can see by the graph below Sunderland saw 29.5% of the ball inside Forest’s final third. Adam Matthews and Bryan Oviedo played an important role in that, sweeping forward from full-back at every opportunity to offer support to the midfield and add further reinforcements in attacks.

https://www.safc.com/news/opinion/2017/september/matchday-uncovered-v-forest
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
For the period 2007-16 I have: Turnover £766.5m, yielding an operating loss of £3.1m. Transfer cash (not the same as fees due to timing of instalments) in £125.8m, out £309.9m.
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So we've made enough money just spunked it on transfers that we didn't get money back for? £3.1M loss over 10 year isn't too bad either. Where has the 140M debt spiral come from?

safc_grindon said:
What do you want to do, string him up? He invested millions, it didn't work. Do you think he wanted it to fail? Is that why he invested all that money - so he could watch it fail?

He tried, he failed. Any of his managerial appointments had worked, and you'd think he was a saint (and I think had Big Sam had still been here, we'd have been in a much better position.

I'm not saying build a statue to him, far from it, but going on like he's evil is just ludicrous.



Yet you'd piss your pants if the price of the pies went up. I'd love it if he spent billions on us - chucked up all his wealth. We're not in a position to demand it, of him or anyone.
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Do you agree that he should get all the 'money' back he has invested over the years after all his failings? That's what's he's trying to do, paper over his ineptness whilst still trying to make a buck.

If he takes a hit selling the club so be it, it's his fault anyway the fuck.
 
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