Hales and Stokes

Status
Not open for further replies.
rentaghost said:
Yes but you are going to look very silly when he doesn't get a 12 year stretch :lol:
Click to expand...

What happens with the charge is irrevlant to my view, he keeps trying to bring the papers into the argument totally ignoring the fact that people are intelligent enough or indeed principled enough to make their own mind up
 


rentaghost said:
I think you missed the sarcasm in my post :cry:
Click to expand...

Of course not mate, I have seen your views on the thread, so knew what you meant.

Yeah can see if now if Stokes gets off or not charged he will be on here saying told you soo when it's totallly irrevlant to whether you or I think he went too far!
 
Paddy O'Dors said:
I don't read newspapers so it means nowt to me. I fail to see how you can label me a pedant when nowt I've said is untrue and is relevant to the thread.
Click to expand...

You may fail to see, but it's obvious to me. Probably to others too. You're arguing pointless semantics - he may be no angel, but he's hardly Satan either is he?

Is he a famous and much loved sportsman? Yes. Or atleast he was before the incident. Are The Sun trying to make him look like a villain in every single way they can? Are they trying to impress upon people an opinion that he's scum, with the relentless smear attempt they seem to be employing against him? Yes. Whilst all the while trying to depict the 'victim' as a butter wouldn't melt, heroic ex-serviceman who is a lover of puppies and kittens and all things furry? Pretty f***ing much.

So yes, it is a character assassination and you're just being pedantic for the sake of argument aren't you? Coming back to your original question of Stokes' 'good reputation', again to reiterate, a world class cricketer, loved by the vast majority who watch him play (including even, the opposition). He does have a good reputation.

Do you believe I'm wrong? Do you believe that it is NOT a character assassination?
 
Last edited:
brandon said:
You may fail to see, but it's obvious to me. Probably to others too. You're arguing pointless semantics - he may be no angel, but he's hardly Satan either is he?

Is he a famous and much loved sportsman? Yes. Or atleast he was before the incident. Are The Sun trying to make him look like a villain in every single way they can? Are they trying to impress upon people an opinion that he's scum, with the relentless smear attempt they seem to be employing against him? Yes. Whilst all the while trying to depict the 'victim' as a butter wouldn't melt, heroic ex-serviceman who is a lover of puppies and kittens and all things furry? Pretty f***ing much.

So yes, it is a character assassination and you're just being pedantic for the sake of argument aren't you? Coming back to your original question of Stokes' 'good reputation', again to reiterate, a world class cricketer, loved by the vast majority who watch him play (including even, the opposition). He does have a good reputation.

Do you believe I'm wrong? Do you believe that it is NOT a character assassination?
Click to expand...

I could not agree more mate that The Sun does go way over the top with anybody in the public eye, however that does not mean people have to read it and also are more than capable of making their own mind up.
 
brandon said:
You may fail to see, but it's obvious to me. Probably to others too. You're arguing pointless semantics - he may be no angel, but he's hardly Satan either is he?

Is he a famous and much loved sportsman? Yes. Or atleast he was before the incident. Are The Sun trying to make him look like a villain in every single way they can? Are they trying to impress upon people an opinion that he's scum, with the relentless smear attempt they seem to be employing against him? Yes. Whilst all the while trying to depict the 'victim' as a butter wouldn't melt, heroic ex-serviceman who is a lover of puppies and kittens and all things furry? Pretty f***ing much.

So yes, it is a character assassination and you're just being pedantic for the sake of argument aren't you? Coming back to your original question of Stokes' 'good reputation', again to reiterate, a world class cricketer, loved by the vast majority who watch him play (including even, the opposition). He does have a good reputation.

Do you believe I'm wrong? Do you believe that it is NOT a character assassination?
Click to expand...

I don't read the Sun. My views on Stokes and his misdemeanours are my own. I'm a DCCC, England and cricket supporter in general so was already well aware of them. I don't get the correlation between the Sun, my views and me being pedantic.
 
Paddy O'Dors said:
I don't read the Sun. My views on Stokes and his misdemeanours are my own. I'm a DCCC, England and cricket supporter in general so was already well aware of them. I don't get the correlation between the Sun, my views and me being pedantic.
Click to expand...

The correlation is that I argued a character assassination by giving the dictionary definition - to which you queried the bit about 'good reputation'.

So you're admitting you don't read the papers, yet still highlighted that point about 'good reputation' to try to disprove or cast doubt atleast on the argument I'd put forward. I'd say that makes you a pedant.

Would you say he didn't have a good reputation in the first place?

@Voice of fair play do you think he's being a pedant? Seeing how you're following him around liking everything he says you must have a view on it.
 
brandon said:
The correlation is that I argued a character assassination by giving the dictionary definition - to which you queried the bit about 'good reputation'.

So you're admitting you don't read the papers, yet still highlighted that point about 'good reputation' to try to disprove or cast doubt atleast on the argument I'd put forward. I'd say that makes you a pedant.

Would you say he didn't have a good reputation in the first place?

@Voice of fair play do you think he's being a pedant? Seeing how you're following him around liking everything he says you must have a view on it.
Click to expand...


I never realised liking one post! is following someone around and liking everything someone says?
 
Voice of fair play said:
I never realised liking one post! is following someone around and liking everything someone says?
Click to expand...

My mistake, it was rentaghost you liked earlier.

Would you like however to address the question I put to you?

Voice of fair play said:
I could not agree more mate that The Sun does go way over the top with anybody in the public eye, however that does not mean people have to read it and also are more than capable of making their own mind up.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately as we've seen time and time again with among other things - politics, a large number of people are NOT capable of making their own mind up.

The power and influence of the gutter press in this country is staggering. It's also hugely depressing.
 
Last edited:
brandon said:
My mistake, it was rentaghost you liked earlier.

Would you like however to address the question I put to you?



Unfortunately as we've seen time and time again with among other things - politics, a large number of people are NOT capable of making their own mind up.

The power and influence of the gutter press in this country is staggering. It's also hugely depressing.
Click to expand...

What I can assure you mate is that I saw the video on the internet and heard his mate say that's enough and saw his mate try to pull him back only for him to shrug him off and continue to punch a bloke who was moving away.

At the point I had not read any paper and simply made my own mind up that Stokes was out of order

I cant speak for other people, although I agree the way The Sun has gone over the top with their coverage, that certainly Stokes reputation will be perceived even worse because of it.
 
brandon said:
The correlation is that I argued a character assassination by giving the dictionary definition - to which you queried the bit about 'good reputation'.

So you're admitting you don't read the papers, yet still highlighted that point about 'good reputation' to try to disprove or cast doubt atleast on the argument I'd put forward. I'd say that makes you a pedant.

Would you say he didn't have a good reputation in the first place?

@Voice of fair play do you think he's being a pedant? Seeing how you're following him around liking everything he says you must have a view on it.
Click to expand...

I would say he didn't have a good reputation. That's my own opinion formed by the things that's been reported on the BBC website and various other reputable sources regarding his past. I dunno what's pedantic about that.

Congratulations Ben.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41622899
 
Last edited:
Voice of fair play said:
What I can assure you mate is that I saw the video on the internet and heard his mate say that's enough and saw his mate try to pull him back only for him to shrug him off and continue to punch a bloke who was moving away.

At the point I had not read any paper and simply made my own mind up that Stokes was out of order

I cant speak for other people, although I agree the way The Sun has gone over the top with their coverage, that certainly Stokes reputation will be perceived even worse because of it.
Click to expand...

That isn't what I asked like, but nevermind ;).

Paddy O'Dors said:
I would say he didn't have a good reputation. That's my own opinion formed by the things that's been reported on the BBC website and various other reputable sources regarding his past. I dunno what's pedantic about that.

Congratulations Ben.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41622899
Click to expand...

Fair enough, you're right, it's your own opinion - I don't think there'll be too many who agree with you regarding Ben having a bad reputation but there you go.

As I said, he's no model professional, which has certainly proved his downfall on more than one occasion, but it's the old flawed genius thing isn't it - hopefully he learns now not be such a dick at times. His talent IMO outweighs any blemishes, he's the greatest allrounder we've had since Botham.

Even if you think he's got a bad reputation, the semantics of the definition aside, it's still deplorable what the shitrag have done - but it doesn't surprise me. Snakes belly and all that.
 
Last edited:
brandon said:
That isn't what I asked like, but nevermind ;).



Fair enough, you're right, it's your own opinion - I don't think there'll be too many who agree with you regarding Ben having a bad reputation but there you go.

As I said, he's no model professional, which has certainly proved his downfall on more than one occasion, but it's the old flawed genius thing isn't it - hopefully he learns now not be such a dick at times. His talent IMO outweighs any blemishes, he's the greatest allrounder we've had since Botham.

Even if you think he's got a bad reputation, the semantics of the definition aside, it's still deplorable what the shitrag have done - but it doesn't surprise me. Snakes belly and all that.
Click to expand...

I love him as a cricketer. I agree the best all rounder since Botham. Whatever the rights and wrongs I look forward to it being over so we can enjoy watching him on the cricket field and hopefully he will have learnt from his mistakes.
 
brandon said:
Fair enough, you're right, it's your own opinion - I don't think there'll be too many who agree with you regarding Ben having a bad reputation but there you go.
Click to expand...

as you know i'm a fairly ardent DCCC fan.

ben stokes has, to my knowledge been arrested but let go once after a night out, been sent home from a lions tour for breaking curfew out drinking, smashed a locker nacking his hand in the process, got involved with on field aggro with windies before, got enough demrit points to now be one more away from a ban as well as now this, and the harvey video [whatever your views of that it is hardly good press is it].

that's off the top of my head.

his reputation is not seen as bad for one reason - because he is a class cricketer. he is seen as a 'bad boy' type which is ok if you're performing.

Voice of fair play said:
No mate I meant everybody does not read the sun and make their own mind up without reading it.
Click to expand...

oh aye, misread slightly, apologies
 
Last edited:
Voice of fair play said:
Once again mate, I have not found him guilty of anything, I have seen a bloke on a video continue to punch other blokes when even his own mates were telling him enough is enough and when even his own mates were trying to pull him off.

I happen to think that is unacceptable whatever charges are made or whatever any paper has to say on the matter.

I simply make my own mind up whatever I think is acceptable, and what has been said by several people which I 100% agree with is in the last 30 seconds of the video his behaviour is unacceptable imo.

It's about what you believe as a person is acceptable behaviour not what any papers say.

It is really this simple mate I think his behaviour was out of order you don't.
Click to expand...
I love the holier than thou stuff.

I'm the last person you'll see in a fight; I'm often peacemaker! But if I had a bottle waved in my face after someone has been receiving homophobic abuse, I can't say I'd know the exact point I'd stop windmilling before it becomes "too much".

Very easy for folk to sit in ivory towers slating Stokes for carrying on, but I'd say most people would've been fuming and wouldn't have known how to rein it in.
 
TheRey said:
I love the holier than thou stuff.

I'm the last person you'll see in a fight; I'm often peacemaker! But if I had a bottle waved in my face after someone has been receiving homophobic abuse, I can't say I'd know the exact point I'd stop windmilling before it becomes "too much".

Very easy for folk to sit in ivory towers slating Stokes for carrying on, but I'd say most people would've been fuming and wouldn't have known how to rein it in.
Click to expand...

I am not exactly slating him for carrying on, I am simply saying he went too far, and the point I am making is it wasn't windmilling in temper at the end, things had calmed down slightly and his own mates were telling him enough is enough,and trying to pull him back and he appeared in the last bit of the video to calmly walk over and keep punching.

It's not holier than now, just a opinion that he went too far, and would not be surprised when he eventually makes a statement he will admit that himself.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top