F1 2024

[PhilY]

He should not have done this season at Mercedes.

Mentally he has left. I think it is a mistake to get rid of Carlos. Good driver, totally committed and good bloke.

I think Ferrari may come to regret their decision to bring Lewis in and lose Sainz.

Lewis is a legend of the sport and is the best driver in my lifetime (I’d argue better than Schumacher, just) but I fear his spark has gone.

Sainz, by contrast, hasn’t had the same support from Ferrari that Le Clerk has had and for me he’s got the consistency that Le Clerk lacks which is needed for a Championship.

I could see him going to Red Bull next season, especially the way Ricciardo is tanking.

Refuelling ruined the racing last time.

No idea why people want it back

Did it? My memory of it was that it added another variable to the racing (which has to be a good thing) but it was ditched on safety and cost savings grounds.

In these days of super-reliability and super-regulation I think the racing needs as many variables as possible.

 

[Joe Public]

Had a couple of very decent stints did Danny Ric. Albert Park isn't an easy track to pass on either.
Still needs a big improvement to even hold on to his RB seat let alone take Checos, but it was an improvement.

I think they should check his phone for dick pics from Horner. He’s had the horn for Daniel for years and I fail to see why. Tsunoda has outperformed him massively, he should be nowhere near an RB seat.

 

[zebediah]

A few years ago that would have been a nothing race, yet it seemed fun just because the cars were close enough together to know any mistake would be punished.

 

[errant]

I must have been watching a different race. Thought it was largely crap.

The bar on what’s entertaining is phenomenally low. However, I believe this graphic below perhaps indicates why I found this round of Schrödinger's Grand Prix to be worth more considering entertaining…

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As pole & win for Japan, China & likely Miami are already guaranteed at least those 90 minutes this morning (on repeat) seemed like fun…

A few years ago that would have been a nothing race, yet it seemed fun just because the cars were close enough together to know any mistake would be punished.

This (x2)

 

[Big Jeff]

I’m genuinely chuffed for Carlos. I think he has been unfairly dumped by Ferrari and I’m a Lewis fan.

Fred is going to look a right knacker if Carlos has his best season in the red car and is then free to go elsewhere.

 

[PTR]

I think Ferrari may come to regret their decision to bring Lewis in and lose Sainz.

Lewis is a legend of the sport and is the best driver in my lifetime (I’d argue better than Schumacher, just) but I fear his spark has gone.

Sainz, by contrast, hasn’t had the same support from Ferrari that Le Clerk has had and for me he’s got the consistency that Le Clerk lacks which is needed for a Championship.

I could see him going to Red Bull next season, especially the way Ricciardo is tanking.

Did it? My memory of it was that it added another variable to the racing (which has to be a good thing) but it was ditched on safety and cost savings grounds.

In these days of super-reliability and super-regulation I think the racing needs as many variables as possible.

When you look at over takes, the refuelling era was far lower than before and after. About half iirc

 

[The Situation]

He had pretty much the same pace as Tsunoda throughout the race though, just he started dead last as he lost his lap in Q1.

Keeping the car within track limits whilst pushing to the limit on a qualifying lap is a skill in itself though.

Since leaving Red Bull, Ricciardo's average finishing position has been 10th (Renault), 7th (Renault), 8th (McLaren), 11.6 (McLaren), 12.7 (AlphaTauri), 13.6 (RB).

His average qualifying position during that time has been 10.6, 7.5, 9.7, 11, 13 and 15.

He's 34 now and will be 35 in the summer and has been on a steady downward progression in terms of both finishes and qualifying positions for almost 6 years.

IMO he's finished and Red Bull would be better off looking at developing someone like Liam Lawson or their other juniors as opposed to persisting with a marketing exercise.

 

[PTR]

Keeping the car within track limits whilst pushing to the limit on a qualifying lap is a skill in itself though.

Totally agree. His race pace was on par with his team mate though, someone who's been in that car for 3 years.

I do think he's finished though (at least as a candidate for a top team), just trying to be fair.
He should really have taken the opportunity to go to the states when it was there.

 

[PhilY]

When you look at over takes, the refuelling era was far lower than before and after. About half iirc

Perhaps, but there’ll be a range of variables involved.

 

[PTR]

Perhaps, but there’ll be a range of variables involved.

Some reading on the topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/nf4jkq/f1_overtaking_database_19942020

" The data clearly shows that every single season of the refueling era has less overtaking than every single season after the refueling ban. In fact I can add that I have draft data going back to 19751 (just from lap charts and pit stops...) and that shows that every single season between 1975 and 1993 also has more overtaking than every single season in the refueling era. That's a pretty damning verdict."

Overtaking records in F1: most overtakes in a race, by a driver and more

Overtakes are one of the most exciting parts of F1, but which race had the most, and which driver made the most in a season? Find out that and more here!

www.autosport.com

"The overtaking average in F1 fell noticeably in 1994 when refuelling was reintroduced, with the 18.1 overtakes per race well down on the 24.5 that had been seen the year before. The average hovered around the low- to mid-teens until the refuelling was banned for the start of the 2010 season, in which the average immediately climbed from 13.2 overtakes per race in 2009 to 23.8 in 2010."

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/cnet9w/number_of_overtakes_in_the_refuelling_era

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[PhilY]

Some reading on the topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/nf4jkq/f1_overtaking_database_19942020

" The data clearly shows that every single season of the refueling era has less overtaking than every single season after the refueling ban. In fact I can add that I have draft data going back to 19751 (just from lap charts and pit stops...) and that shows that every single season between 1975 and 1993 also has more overtaking than every single season in the refueling era. That's a pretty damning verdict."

Overtaking records in F1: most overtakes in a race, by a driver and more

Overtakes are one of the most exciting parts of F1, but which race had the most, and which driver made the most in a season? Find out that and more here!

www.autosport.com

"The overtaking average in F1 fell noticeably in 1994 when refuelling was reintroduced, with the 18.1 overtakes per race well down on the 24.5 that had been seen the year before. The average hovered around the low- to mid-teens until the refuelling was banned for the start of the 2010 season, in which the average immediately climbed from 13.2 overtakes per race in 2009 to 23.8 in 2010."

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/cnet9w/number_of_overtakes_in_the_refuelling_era

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Thanks for this - I will have a look. I do wonder if there were other factors in play, however, for example, different regulations, because there is no reason why refuelling would by itself reduce the number of overtakes. If anything, logically, it should increase them.

 

[PTR]

Thanks for this - I will have a look. I do wonder if there were other factors in play, however, for example, different regulations, because there is no reason why refuelling would by itself reduce the number of overtakes. If anything, logically, it should increase them.

Couple of reasons
1 - No fuel management. You can't really eek out an extra lap on short stints, so everyone is flat out all the time - no deltas to take advantage of
2 - No undercut/overcuts - you basically have to stop when the fuel gague tells you to. Undercutting means you didn't get to exploit your fastest laps of a stint

That's not to say I wouldn't consider it again - one of the big issues is the cars are too wide and long. If reducing the fuel tank from 100 to 50kg helps to fix that, then its worth thinking about. I don't think that fuel tank is the big issue though.
For the same reason, I'd even consider stripping PU components out - MGH is already planned to be removed I think. Regen MGU is probaby needed for the electrical side, but do they really need turbos orall 6 cylinders?

Or is the electrical side the main issue with size and weight?

Something needs sorting though. The cars can follow better than ever, but its hard to fight when the cars are massive.

 

[PhilY]

Couple of reasons
1 - No fuel management. You can't really eek out an extra lap on short stints, so everyone is flat out all the time - no deltas to take advantage of
2 - No undercut/overcuts - you basically have to stop when the fuel gague tells you to. Undercutting means you didn't get to exploit your fastest laps of a stint

That's not to say I wouldn't consider it again - one of the big issues is the cars are too wide and long. If reducing the fuel tank from 100 to 50kg helps to fix that, then its worth thinking about. I don't think that fuel tank is the big issue though.
For the same reason, I'd even consider stripping PU components out - MGH is already planned to be removed I think. Regen MGU is probaby needed for the electrical side, but do they really need turbos orall 6 cylinders?

Or is the electrical side the main issue with size and weight?

Something needs sorting though. The cars can follow better than ever, but its hard to fight when the cars are massive.

I’m probably missing something obvious, but why wouldn’t there be any under/over cuts. Was there a rule that refilling can only be done on empty?

 

[PTR]

I’m probably missing something obvious, but why wouldn’t there be any under/over cuts. Was there a rule that refilling can only be done on empty?

IIRC, the tyres lasted really well, so you got faster and faster as the fuel burned off.
So undercutting didn't work - remember, you come out with a full tank.
And if you overcut, then you ran out of fuel

 

[PhilY]

IIRC, the tyres lasted really well, so you got faster and faster as the fuel burned off.
So undercutting didn't work
And if you overcut, then you ran out of fuel

Haha. I did mean overcut on the tyres, not the fuel, but I can see why you thought that!

Drivers could still reduce engine power to extend a stint I guess?

 

[PTR]

Haha. I did mean overcut on the tyres, not the fuel, but I can see why you thought that!

Drivers could still reduce engine power to extend a stint I guess?

The stint length was always governed by the fuel, not the tyres though. You pitted for fuel - the fresh rubber was secondary.

Much harder to gain a full lap in 1/3 of a GP in order to maybe have an opportunity to do a one lap overcut.

 

[makumstu]

The FIA have got to put a fixed penalty in place for pre-drs zone messing about, Max did it in ‘21 other have done, Alonso was trying to compromise Russell for it this morning

Hearing Russell being that scared wasnt good for the sport like

Seeing the footage from Strolls car and how fast he was approaching the incident, if his Engineer hadn't have acted so quickly in relaying the imminent danger that would have been a lot worse.

UNSEEN: 'Danger!' - Stroll engineer prevents collision with stricken Russell

Watch the moment Lance Stroll's quick-thinking engineer prevented a potentially dangerous collision with the stricken Mercedes of George Russell during the Australian Grand Prix.

www.skysports.com

How an Engineer can realise how dangerous that situation was that quickly, yet Race Control couldn't. With 1 lap to go, probably should have been an immediate red flag.

 

[Big Jeff]

Seeing the footage from Strolls car and how fast he was approaching the incident, if his Engineer hadn't have acted so quickly in relaying the imminent danger that would have been a lot worse.

UNSEEN: 'Danger!' - Stroll engineer prevents collision with stricken Russell

Watch the moment Lance Stroll's quick-thinking engineer prevented a potentially dangerous collision with the stricken Mercedes of George Russell during the Australian Grand Prix.

www.skysports.com

How an Engineer can realise how dangerous that situation was that quickly, yet Race Control couldn't. With 1 lap to go, probably should have been an immediate red flag.

The engineers know where every car is on track I’m guessing they would be able to tell George was stationary. They must also have the tv feed to know he was in the middle of the track.

 

[PTR]

Although it should have been a red flag, I think I have tuned into George a bit over the years, and he's extremely switched on about grabbing any advantage - I'm not certain, but I certainly wouldn't put it past him to have been shouting for the red flag because he knew he'd keep his position and points as the race wouldn't have restarted.

I might be wrong, and I think most people would say I am. But I think that's exactly who George is.

 

[Hettonlass]

Seeing the footage from Strolls car and how fast he was approaching the incident, if his Engineer hadn't have acted so quickly in relaying the imminent danger that would have been a lot worse.

UNSEEN: 'Danger!' - Stroll engineer prevents collision with stricken Russell

Watch the moment Lance Stroll's quick-thinking engineer prevented a potentially dangerous collision with the stricken Mercedes of George Russell during the Australian Grand Prix.

www.skysports.com

How an Engineer can realise how dangerous that situation was that quickly, yet Race Control couldn't. With 1 lap to go, probably should have been an immediate red flag.

Although it should have been a red flag, I think I have tuned into George a bit over the years, and he's extremely switched on about grabbing any advantage - I'm not certain, but I certainly wouldn't put it past him to have been shouting for the red flag because he knew he'd keep his position and points as the race wouldn't have restarted.

I might be wrong, and I think most people would say I am. But I think that's exactly who George is.

A red flag and VSC have the same delta times, this was discussed with Bernie so it was ok for VSC and not a red flag as was already on the final lap