Everton (deduction reduced)

FoldingStars said:
Ill look later but it'll be interesting to see what Everton used in the appeal, why didn't they use that in the initial case? Realistically we need a fixed penalty for breaking the rules, that'll never happen because the rules keep on changing mainly to keep the big boys happy.

You shouldn't have cases hanging around and then appeals allowed so it goes on beyond that season as then clubs can survive by cheating and take the punishment the following year. Sadly with all the money involved lawyers will love it and won't ever let it be sorted.
Click to expand...
You make some valid points there, particularly the point on lawyers loving a never ending process.
One potentially positive point in all of this is the seemingly increased focus and therefore decreasing spend of many clubs in the January window.
It seems they have received a bit of a fright and realize the disciplinary panel isn’t going to mess about.
 


Forest can now expect a minimum 6 points deduction for their charge, could be more if the amount is way above the 19.5m Everton exceeded the figure by.

Everton, while its a second offence, its also covering two of the years assessed previously. If the figure exceeded is increased, then you would expect a similar or worse punishment as they aren't moving in the right direction. if its less they could plead they are trying to get back into the right area.

As for City, you would expect much bigger penalties for being unco-operative etc. Would personally like to see them relegated a couple of divisions, like Swindon were inititally. Its got to be worse than what they did.

I don't think Chelsea are out of the woods yet either. But their new owners have provided info on the Abramovich years.

Could be interesting in the next two years.
 
Neautral said:
Is it harsh if it’s well established rules the vast majority have been able to abide by?

They could’ve sold more players to comply and used the youth? If the answer to that is yes but they’d have got relegated, well then they’ve proven they took the risk In Cheating instead and it has paid off for them
Click to expand...

A rule can objectively be harsh/ stupid, while also being something you have to abide by you know.

Also you say well established, the fact they've punished Everton twice for essentially the same accounts is something established for the first time this year, they've made that up this year.v

For me if Keiran Maguire, the football finance expert, thinks it's harsh I'm inclined to believe him tbh.
 
joop said:
You make some valid points there, particularly the point on lawyers loving a never ending process.
One potentially positive point in all of this is the seemingly increased focus and therefore decreasing spend of many clubs in the January window.
It seems they have received a bit of a fright and realize the disciplinary panel isn’t going to mess about.
Click to expand...
Aye best case it scares clubs and they become sensible but most likely outcome is the clubs pressure people in charge that they change the rules so they can spend more. Football is mental it's the only business where losing money is acceptable, the £105m allowed losses needs to be £0, need better checking in allowed spends, youth systems being allocated £15m a year than only a fraction being spent on it but clubs getting away with it.

I feel for Everton as they are the first to be caught, probably going to get done again due to the 3 year rolling rule and they had been bad for a few years, but this can't continue.
 
Onlyfoolsrushin said:
Forest can now expect a minimum 6 points deduction for their charge, could be more if the amount is way above the 19.5m Everton exceeded the figure by.

Everton, while its a second offence, its also covering two of the years assessed previously. If the figure exceeded is increased, then you would expect a similar or worse punishment as they aren't moving in the right direction. if its less they could plead they are trying to get back into the right area.

As for City, you would expect much bigger penalties for being unco-operative etc. Would personally like to see them relegated a couple of divisions, like Swindon were inititally. Its got to be worse than what they did.

I don't think Chelsea are out of the woods yet either. But their new owners have provided info on the Abramovich years.

Could be interesting in the next two years.
Click to expand...

Sensible post imo. Be interesting to see what happens.
 
If a team gets point deduction that should be set in stone, end of story

Makes a mockery of the league all this back and forth
 
The Situation said:
It'll almost certainly end up being 4 points, to bring the deduction back to a total of 10 after today's reduction.

It's so obvious.
Click to expand...
No one knows got a feeling Everton will get away with a points deduction on the 2nd charge …. Sounds like Forest are far more in the 💩
wschmidt said:
If a team gets point deduction that should be set in stone, end of story

Makes a mockery of the league all this back and forth
Click to expand...
No it shouldn’t as the original 10pts was a joke
 
Fleagle said:
It’ll never be time to sanction Man City. And not because of some conspiracy. But because I reckon they will have probably managed to avoid breaking any rules. Just as the rich always get away with avoiding tax by finding loopholes.

You saw it in the EFL as well. Various loopholes exploited like selling the stadium to a connected company, moving the debt to a connected company etc. Not actually against the rules at the time, so everyone gets away with it until the rules changed, unless you are catastrophically, stupid like Sheffield Wednesday and do your fiddle in the wrong year or you run out of the money to carry on the fight like Derby did. City do not strike me as stupid, and they won’t run out of money.
Click to expand...
City have been charged with 115 FFP breaches, if they aren’t demoted it’ll make a mockery of the rules and it’ll be open season from then on.

If they aren’t demoted you might as well do away with FFP.

I imagine they’ll get away with a big fine as the Premier League don’t want their cash cow in the EFL.
 
Drexl said:
City have been charged with 115 FFP breaches, if they aren’t demoted it’ll make a mockery of the rules and it’ll be open season from then on.

If they aren’t demoted you might as well do away with FFP.

I imagine they’ll get away with a big fine as the Premier League don’t want their cash cow in the EFL.
Click to expand...
If City were to be demoted it would push them towards a super league I suspect.
 
TheRey said:
Cheating Scouse rats. But aye, the EPL is corrupt against them :rolleyes: cant stand the f*cking c*nts
Click to expand...

What cheating is that then?

We've been given a 6 point deduction, some on here are acting like we've been given all 10 points back.

Portsmouth got 9 points for administration, a situation which has many negative impacts on a club and its staff. Everton have breached the limit by £19.5m (agreed by the Independent Commission) while trying to build a new stadium which will provide a £1.3bn boost for the local economy. It can't be considered worse mismanagement than administration.

The 10 point deduction was far too harsh, 6 about right.
 
Drexl said:
City have been charged with 115 FFP breaches, if they aren’t demoted it’ll make a mockery of the rules and it’ll be open season from then on.

If they aren’t demoted you might as well do away with FFP.

I imagine they’ll get away with a big fine as the Premier League don’t want their cash cow in the EFL.
Click to expand...
Whilst they have been charged with 115, many will be linked with each other and they'll probably just get thrown together once its actually being looked at. Issue is even if this gets looked at next week Everton had 1 charge and it took weeks, 115 for a club with unlimited funds and the best lawyers is going to drag on so much that when/if they get punished it'll be after they've won 25 trophies. Also I don't think they'll be found guilty, be loopholes all over they have found.
 
Bear said:
What you on about ? They’ve really reigned in their spending for seasons now and sold over £112m worth over 12mths without really spending
Click to expand...
Bear said:
And yet for 5 seasons only Brighton spent less (net spend)
Click to expand...
The last 5 seasons? That's simply because they sold players and stopped spending but this was 'after' all the big spending that has got them into the shit in the first place. The net spend from 2017/18 was £210m in the 4 following seasons to 2020/21 and the years in question are 2019/20, 2020/21, 2021/22 aren't they?

www.efcstatto.com

Everton Transfers

Over 2,000 transfers for you to enjoy (or make you shudder if any transfers bring back painful memories). Starting from the inaugural Football League season, the transfers include most players who …
www.efcstatto.com www.efcstatto.com

Some of this is thor'd below and to me it looks like Everton chased the dream of Europe, spending big on player fees and wages taking the risk and hitting a wages to revenue in the 90% and failed.

Their wage bill increased hugely, chasing the dream, from the £105m in 2017 peaking at £183m in 2021.

Logon or register to see this image


Most of their revenue has been spent on wages since 2017, all while they were also averaging -£50m a season on player transfers over those 4 following seasons.

Logon or register to see this image



Also that £19.5m over the 3 year limit is a fiddled figure as you only have to look at all the other clubs losses up to 2021/22 which also included COVID to spot the outlier. Even taking off the £111m loss in 2018 still leaves £306m over the 3 other seasons and still more than other clubs lost in 4 seasons. They haven't posted a profit since 2017 and the net spend from 2017/18 was £210m in the 4 following seasons to 2020/21. It wasn't until 2022/23 they sold players for big money yet if for example they'd sold Richarlison (and other players) a season earlier in 2021/22 to help balance the books then would they have survived relegation? For me, they took the risk of chasing the dream of Europe after finishing 7th in 2016/17 and hoying big money about. It didn't work out as they finished 8th the 2 following seasons and it got worse. If anything it's COVID that has saved them from the higher losses.

 
Last edited:
Sporty said:
The last 5 seasons? That's simply because they sold players and stopped spending but this was 'after' all the big spending that has got them into the shit in the first place. The net spend from 2017/18 was £210m in the 4 following seasons to 2020/21 and the years in question are 2019/20, 2020/21, 2021/22 aren't they?

www.efcstatto.com

Everton Transfers

Over 2,000 transfers for you to enjoy (or make you shudder if any transfers bring back painful memories). Starting from the inaugural Football League season, the transfers include most players who …
www.efcstatto.com www.efcstatto.com

Some of this is thor'd below and to me it looks like Everton chased the dream of Europe, spending big on player fees and wages taking the risk and hitting a wages to revenue in the 90% and failed.

Their wage bill increased hugely, chasing the dream, from the £105m in 2017 peaking at £183m in 2021.

Logon or register to see this image


Most of their revenue has been spent on wages since 2017, all while they were also averaging -£50m a season on player transfers over those 4 following seasons.

Logon or register to see this image



Also that £19.5m over the 3 year limit is a fiddled figure as you only have to look at all the other clubs losses up to 2021/22 which also included COVID to spot the outlier. Even taking off the £111m loss in 2018 still leaves £306m over the 3 other seasons and still more than other clubs lost in 4 seasons. They haven't posted a profit since 2017 and the net spend from 2017/18 was £210m in the 4 following seasons to 2020/21. It wasn't until 2022/23 they sold players for big money yet if for example they'd sold Richarlison (and other players) a season earlier in 2021/22 to help balance the books then would they have survived relegation? For me, they took the risk of chasing the dream of Europe after finishing 7th in 2016/17 and hoying big money about. It didn't work out as they finished 8th the 2 following seasons and it got worse. If anything it's COVID that has saved them from the higher losses.

Click to expand...
Nee way am I looking at all that ffs

Stick to gifs mate
 
It said on the radio the Forest and Everton ones have to be decided by April but the appeals have to have been made and decided upon by the end of May when the AGM is held.
So, we could be waiting a couple of weeks after the season finishes to see who is relegated or, they could start next season on minus.
What a mess man.
 

Back
Top