Do you believe Aliens are already here?

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Ilios said:
No, if all of that is accurate, it would only confirm that 'something' was physically there. That doesn't mean the pilots weren't still wrong/lying about what was there. That would be equivalent of me claiming that the ghost of William Pitt the Younger was talking to me through the radio, and the evidence to demonstrate this is that I own a reasonably functioning radio...
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It is all accurate. This information has been released by the US government.
So were the radar hits confirming what the pilots saw or as you say, were lying about, wrong also?

Ilios said:
That's both an argument from authority fallacy, and a shifting of the burden of the proof. You don't get to default to 'aliens did it unless you can debunk it' - that is irrational thinking.
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FFS I am not saying aliens.:lol: I am saying that some sort of mysterious craft was observed and also picked up on radar and camera, that the US military could not explain away? They kept quiet about it, but for some reason have released this information of a secret UFO research group and of some cases from a few years ago.
 
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the boot said:
8.7 million different species on a planet that we KNOW supports life and only one gets to outer space The others eat, drink, fuck, sleep.

What are the odds of that.
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Everything on this planet is born from survival of the fittest and it seems difficult to comprehend how it would be different on an Earth 2 somewhere.

But imagine a planet where dominant species is evolved from ants where they have to work together to survive not fight each other.
 
Zidane said:
Everything on this planet is born from survival of the fittest and it seems difficult to comprehend how it would be different on an Earth 2 somewhere.

But imagine a planet where dominant species is evolved from ants where they have to work together to survive not fight each other.
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I understand this and can imagine it. That’s a bit like what I’m saying tbh this could happen but there would be no space travel from them.
 
Seriously doubt aliens would bother coming here. As mentioned earlier in the thread, if they have the capability to travel the vast distances involved they're presumably so much more advanced than us that they wouldn't really get any benefit from it.

Always think it's mad how, in addition to having to find a planet with intelligent life, you also have to find it at the right time. If someone saw earth a few billion years ago they'd find nothing. Now we're here, but a few billion years in the future (or potentially much sooner) they might find nowt again, or our planet will have been destroyed when the sun dies, leaving no trace. I'm certain there's life elsewhere, too many suns and planets for there not to be, but doubt we'll ever have encounters with them, aside from maybe some form of single cell thing on Mars or somewhere
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
Seriously doubt aliens would bother coming here.
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You state that as if Earth is some worthless dead rock.

Of course other life forms would be interested in visiting here. Compared to 99.9999999999999% of the bodies in the galaxy which are dead, it's got millions of species of life and a hugely dynamic ecosystem. What's not to like?

Admittedly, a race that's literally 200,000 years of development ahead us might not actually want to bother talking to us in case we throw stones or spears at them, but they'll definitely be keeping an eye on us in case we invent the capability to properly travel into space and start f***ing things up elsewhere as well.
 
Zidane said:
You state that as if Earth is some worthless dead rock.

Of course other life forms would be interested in visiting here. Compared to 99.9999999999999% of the bodies in the galaxy which are dead, it's got millions of species of life and a hugely dynamic ecosystem. What's not to like?

Admittedly, a race that's literally 200,000 years of development ahead us might not actually want to bother talking to us in case we throw stones or spears at them, but they'll definitely be keeping an eye on us in case we invent the capability to properly travel into space and start f***ing things up elsewhere as well.
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In fairness to him, we're at the arse end of one of the arms of the galaxy. I'm sure there's way more going on as you get closer to the centre . For all we know there's some great community of alien species nearer the middle of our galaxy, but we're way out int' sticks. Aliens probably wouldn't be all too bothered about coming this far out looking for the odd planet with an ecosystem as there are probably thousands of them in closer proximity to each other nearer the middle of the galaxy.

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the boot said:
Ok mate I get this. But what makes you think aliens can on their planets.
Have the resources to utilise them and use to travel through space. Everything needs fuel whatever resources you have, and funding of some sort.
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I don't think you are getting it fully, they don't need to travel they would already be here just on a different realm/frequency. It could even be along the lines of Hawkins simulation theory but with multiple simulations being run on top of each other. It's all just theory and to be honest I stopped thinking about it as just like we have limited senses , a limited colour range and can't really think outside a 'beginning /end' scenario there is just no point in trying to work it out :)
 
fyl2u said:
In fairness to him, we're at the arse end of one of the arms of the galaxy. I'm sure there's way more going on as you get closer to the centre . For all we know there's some great community of alien species nearer the middle of our galaxy, but we're way out int' sticks. Aliens probably wouldn't be all too bothered about coming this far out looking for the odd planet with an ecosystem as there are probably thousands of them in closer proximity to each other nearer the middle of the galaxy.

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It could be the other way around. Perhaps we're the ones in a sweet spot:

Planetary habitability - Wikipedia
 
Mally Mackem said:
Intelligence isn't the issue.. the speed of light is the speed limit of the universe.. and that's not rocket science.. it's impossible any thing has travelled here..
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Impossible based on our knowledge today, but the fact they say we only know about 20% of how the universe works makes you wonder what we are missing. It boggles the mind to be honest, the chances are pretty high we are looking at it all wrong in the first place.
 
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parm said:
I reckon a intelligence has been interacting with humanity since day one and may have played a part in our creation / advancement - this intelligence presents itself to fit in with the times . hence since the space age we have been dealing with "aliens"
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That's an interesting concept, maybe your flat earth bullshit was crazy but also a nudge.

I have a dream, a song to sing
To help me cope with anything
If you see the wonder of a fairy tale
You can take the future even if you fail
I believe in aliens
Something good in everything I see
I believe in aliens
When I know the time is right for me
I'll cross the stream, I have a dream
 
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SAFCOldie said:
I don't think you are getting it fully, they don't need to travel they would already be here just on a different realm/frequency. It could even be along the lines of Hawkins simulation theory but with multiple simulations being run on top of each other. It's all just theory and to be honest I stopped thinking about it as just like we have limited senses , a limited colour range and can't really think outside a 'beginning /end' scenario there is just no point in trying to work it out :)
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Some of the theories are pretty mind boggling and in reality if they are true then perhaps things we see are where the boundary between dimensions gets blurred for some reason and things can pass through or appear in other dimensions. I read a book a few years back and it was going on about how there were 7 or 8 dimensions but the ones we couldn't perceive were curled up very tightly so our bodies passed through them but due to the curled nature we didn't perceive any changes in our reality hence didn't know they existed (how they figured out they might be there was beyond me but was related to string theory somehow). I do wonder exactly how much we can perceive and how much we miss (i am reading a book by a neuroscientist at the moment and he has already mentioned how limited our perceptions are and how some women can perceive and extra colour which most people cannot)
 
taipeisafc said:
Some of the theories are pretty mind boggling and in reality if they are true then perhaps things we see are where the boundary between dimensions gets blurred for some reason and things can pass through or appear in other dimensions. I read a book a few years back and it was going on about how there were 7 or 8 dimensions but the ones we couldn't perceive were curled up very tightly so our bodies passed through them but due to the curled nature we didn't perceive any changes in our reality hence didn't know they existed (how they figured out they might be there was beyond me but was related to string theory somehow). I do wonder exactly how much we can perceive and how much we miss (i am reading a book by a neuroscientist at the moment and he has already mentioned how limited our perceptions are and how some women can perceive and extra colour which most people cannot)
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A few people here seem to be a bit confused by the word "dimensions" and are mixing up the old sci-fi trope of extra dimensions being like another habitable realm "sharing our space but we can't see them" with the ideas of string theory / M-theory where at the very smallest level, subatomic particles rather than point-source, are actually tiny 1-dimensional "strings" (or 2- and 5-dimension membranes in M-theory) whose different types of vibrations define a particle's type.

These vibrations occur not just in the 3-dimensions of space but (depending on exactly which version of string theory) in 10, 11, or 26 dimensions. (There may be other versions of the theory I'm not aware of that require a different number of dimensions again).

In string theory, the extra "dimensions" should be thought of as additions to the three "extended" dimensions we all know of already, like when you're drawing a 3D image or 3-D graph, you have the y-axis: the up-down dimension, the x-axis: the left-right dimension, and the Z-axis: forward-backward dimension. The extra dimensions predicted by string theory are just extra "directions" in which the strings can vibrate other than the three directions we take for granted.

As you quite rightly say, these dimensions are "curled up" dimensions. By this it means that from any starting point in 3D space if the string were to travel along say, let's call one the W-axis, the string can't get to the "next" position in space along that axis, it just ends up back where it came from. The next position in 3D space is the same, and the next, and the next.

There's no way to travel along the W-axis the way you can travel along the X, Y and Z axes: a string at position 1,1,1 on the 3D graph has all these curled up dimensions that don't go anywhere, another string at 1,1,2 on the 3D graph will have the same options but again the W-axis goes nowhere other than back on itself.

The shape of these dimensions has been predicted to be what they call "Calabi-Yau manifolds", which are curled up bits of space that would kind of look a bit like this:

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Essentially (to simplify for the sake of the conversation) at every point in space, there's a little bit of space this shape defining where a string can vibrate.

To expand that across a 2D plane (it would look messy to try and do in a 3D drawing and 2D is sufficient to make the point) should look something like this:

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As you can see on this diagram, the green lines represent 2 of our 3 "extended" dimensions, where you can travel along one of them for as long as you like, passing many of the C-Y manifolds along the way, but if you tried to travel along one of the actual manifolds you just end up still in the same place. There's nowhere to go except to leave the curled-up dimension and travel back along the extended dimensions again.

These curled-up dimensions are so small that nothing bigger than a fundamental subatomic 1D string can traverse them, so it would be nonsensical to suggest anything could live there. To all intents and purposes there is no "there" to live in. It would be like saying that you live inside an electron. Almost.

Hope this makes sense. :)

In a lot of popular sci-fi, like the TV show Fringe for example, they travel to alternate versions of our reality and sometimes these shows and movies refer to them as "other dimensions" but that isn't really what they are. That plot device comes from quantum mechanics in what is referred to as the "Many-Worlds Interpretation" as a way to describe how subatomic particles rather than definitely existing at a single place, at a single time, in a certain state, all in fact appear to be "tendencies" with a certain probability to exist at a certain place, certain time, certain state.

This is what Einstein was referring to when he famously said "God does not play dice". (He didn't actually believe in God, but used the word metaphorically sometimes).

In his view, something was or was not. It was an affront to his sensibilities that something could exist this much of the time but not the rest of the time. He did get over it eventually. :)

In this interpretation of quantum mechanics, say you have a subatomic particle that is positionally here 75% of the time, it actually still exists the other 25% of the time elsewhere, with the entire universe splitting off fractally to create an infinite number of parallel universes. Because of there being an infinite number of them it becomes necessary that for every outcome that could happen but doesn't in our universe, a new universe is created, meaning that every possible outcome to every situation even on the macro level will be real in one universe or another in a big tree of universes referred to as the multiverse.

If you're familiar with Schrodinger's Cat, where after a certain time the cat is both alive and dead at the same time until you open the box, after which the "wavefunction collapses" one way or the other, this can be shown using the Many Worlds Interpretation like this:



Essentially every moment in time for every point in space has a similar branch to it as in this picture.

N.B. There's a fantastic movie that pushes this theory to its limits called Coherence. Well worth a watch if you're into this sort of thing.

Anyway, point being, there's no "other dimension sharing our space" for aliens to live in when you're invoking String Theory's extra curled-up dimensions, but there are mathematically at least an infinite number of "parallel universes" within which everything that could have happened in our universe but hasn't, has happened. :)

Could this mean that aliens live in parallel universes? Almost certainly according to the maths of the MWI, but it is just one possible interpretation of the maths. There are other explanations that don't involve the universe spawning off infinite numbers of other universes at every moment in time.

If the MWI turned out to be true, could anything travel between these universes? Who knows. "Infinite" implies that everything that could have happened did happen in other universes, but does that include things that couldn't happen? I.E. is there a tree of universes where you or I developed a way to travel between these alternate universes in the style of the TV show Sliders? Is there a universe where Mickey Mouse comes to life as a real being? Is there a universe where I'm the Emperor of the World and am married to Heidi Klum? It's easy to get carried away and start making assumptions when words like "infinite number" start being bandied about.

As I said, the Many Worlds Interpretation is just one explanation for the maths of quantum mechanics, and it isn't without its critics. You just have to read the Wiki page for the MWI to see the common objections to it as a theory: Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia

So there we go.

TL;DR: Interdimensional aliens? No.

[Mic drop.]

[Exit, stage left]
 
niceonemarra said:


That's an interesting concept, maybe your flat earth bullshit was crazy but also a nudge.

I have a dream, a song to sing
To help me cope with anything
If you see the wonder of a fairy tale
You can take the future even if you fail
I believe in aliens
Something good in everything I see
I believe in aliens
When I know the time is right for me
I'll cross the stream, I have a dream
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70% of planet is water , but we know water doesnt curve or bend , always flat .
 
parm said:
70% of planet is water , but we know water doesnt curve or bend , always flat .
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We'll have to save that debate for the flat earth thread marra.

Do you believe in Aliens Parm?
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
Seriously doubt aliens would bother coming here. As mentioned earlier in the thread, if they have the capability to travel the vast distances involved they're presumably so much more advanced than us that they wouldn't really get any benefit from it.

Always think it's mad how, in addition to having to find a planet with intelligent life, you also have to find it at the right time. If someone saw earth a few billion years ago they'd find nothing. Now we're here, but a few billion years in the future (or potentially much sooner) they might find nowt again, or our planet will have been destroyed when the sun dies, leaving no trace. I'm certain there's life elsewhere, too many suns and planets for there not to be, but doubt we'll ever have encounters with them, aside from maybe some form of single cell thing on Mars or somewhere
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They’ve also got to avoid travelling thousands of light years and landing in The Bigg Market on a weekend.
 
niceonemarra said:
We'll have to save that debate for the flat earth thread marra.

Do you believe in Aliens Parm?
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yes , i do sometimes wonder if these lifeforms arent actually sharing this "planet" with us .maybe we are kept in our own small section of earth and others in theirs but occasionaly they pop over to see what we are up to in their crafts
 
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