Do we the fans invest more in SAFC than KLD does?

[Football Dinosaur]

Took over a League One side and turned them into a relatively successful Championship side in three seasons seems pretty successful to me.

A league one side, but a premier league club.

 

[DrewC]

Even if you own billions but buy an asset like Sunderland and don’t put money into it what’s the point of owning it?

 

[Sleepy]

I think the whole crux of the matter is people see him as loaded so he should just chuck money at it and if it doesn't come off well he can chuck some more at it. He trying to run us properly and make as as self sufficient as possible ready for the new rules coming in. I get it can be frustrating at times but budgets for players and wages will go up when the times right. I think it sensible not just to chuck a fortune at it willy nilly then worry later if it doesn't come off. The championship is littered with clubs pissing fortunes away and betting the bank on going up. Fair play to KLD for going against the grain and trying things different. No guarantee it gets you into the premier league but if it doesn't we would be financially crippled off the back of it

This. This. And, this again!

 

[Phantom of mobs]

Took over a League One side and turned them into a relatively successful Championship side in three seasons seems pretty successful to me.

IMHO getting SAFC out of the third tier was the easiest feat in football. Claiming that as a success is cringeworthy

 

[Binxy]

IMHO getting SAFC out of the third tier was the easiest feat in football. Claiming that as a success is cringeworthy

Anyone half competent should be able to get Sunderland out of league one ffs.

 

[PitYacker]

Nit pick here, but it's not a fair comparison. You're comparing annual wage with his total wealth. A fair comparison would either be annual wage v his annual income, or your total wealth v his total wealth.

Yeah I know but my point simply is that to most people £1k is worth a lot more to them than £50m is worth to someone whose trust fund is worth over £2bn.

To be honest once you’ve got £1bn I doubt any further money would radically alter your life, compared to say someone having £50k in the bank or £100k which is a massive difference to those people.

I’d be embarrassed if I ran a business and had that much money but didn’t pay for the upkeep of the premises or didn’t hire the right quality of staff to make the business a success.

 

[Wearson]

Anyone half competent should be able to get Sunderland out of league one ffs.

Not so easy with a squad of serial failures.

 

[Scorer]

His wealth isn’t the same as his income. Assuming he gets 5% returns on his 2 billion his “ wage” would be 50 million.
I don’t know how much he has to put in but I reckon it’s a lot more than 2.5% of that. 10% would only be 5m and I think it’ll be more than that too.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Are there any clubs in the top two divisions not posting yearly figures in red ink?
Not talking about the wizardry of making a loss look like a profit. I mean a straight up we put in £100 and got £105 back at the end of the year.
It almost seems there’s a ‘money in losing money’ theory.

Most PL clubs are profitable; few, if any, in the Championship.

 

[chunksafc]

Most PL clubs are profitable; few, if any, in the Championship.

That's interesting about the premier league clubs, do you have an article I could have a read up on? The last deloitte report I read said debt was increasing (unless your one of the big 6)

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

That's interesting about the premier league clubs, do you have an article I could have a read up on? The last deloitte report I read said debt was increasing (unless your one of the big 6)

Debt isn't the same as profit.

Premier League accounts: Latest finances England's from top-flight clubs

It’s that time of year again. No, it’s not the dawn of spring with birds chirping and daylight actually lasting longer than the working day, it’s the end of the financial year and that means Premier League clubs must present their full accounts for the previous financial year — essentially the...

theathletic.com

It's an interesting take. Clubs are nowhere as profitable as they were two or three years ago - and most of the losses appear to be on transfers. At the operating level, ie before player trading, total PL profit was around £600m - an average of £20m each. By way of contrast, SAFC had an operating loss of £4.4m in the last published accounts, and that would make us among the best in the Championship (or should that be least worse.

 

[chunksafc]

Debt isn't the same as profit.

Premier League accounts: Latest finances England's from top-flight clubs

It’s that time of year again. No, it’s not the dawn of spring with birds chirping and daylight actually lasting longer than the working day, it’s the end of the financial year and that means Premier League clubs must present their full accounts for the previous financial year — essentially the...

theathletic.com

It's an interesting take. Clubs are nowhere as profitable as they were two or three years ago - and most of the losses appear to be on transfers. At the operating level, ie before player trading, total PL profit was around £600m - an average of £20m each. By way of contrast, SAFC had an operating loss of £4.4m in the last published accounts, and that would make us among the best in the Championship (or should that be least worse.

I'm aware debt isn't the same as profit.

This was the most current article I could find which shows quite frightening figures

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/0...league-season-from-a-football-finance-expert/

 

[MackneyHackem]

OP just got a promotion and is on £40k.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

I'm aware debt isn't the same as profit.

This was the most current article I could find which shows quite frightening figures

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/0...league-season-from-a-football-finance-expert/

For a clear view, you'd need more visibility on the soft (ie owner) vs hard (external) loan numbers. Soft debt is far more manageable as in mos cases it ends up being a gift or capitalised. The other factor is the size of the asset base against which the loan stands. It's far from rare for a FTSE company to have borrowings of say £1bn against an asset base of £5bn. The number looks huge, but it's only gearing of 20%, which is easily sustainable.

 

[chunksafc]

For a clear view, you'd need more visibility on the soft (ie owner) vs hard (external) loan numbers. Soft debt is far more manageable as in mos cases it ends up being a gift or capitalised. The other factor is the size of the asset base against which the loan stands. It's far from rare for a FTSE company to have borrowings of say £1bn against an asset base of £5bn. The number looks huge, but it's only gearing of 20%, which is easily sustainable.

So soft from KLD would be good as he can gift it?

Having read Maguires article I would still say the premier league isn't the land of milk and honey without owner input

 

[Far Tibetan Mountain]

IMHO getting SAFC out of the third tier was the easiest feat in football. Claiming that as a success is cringeworthy

It clearly wasn't like.

 

[The Continuing Story]

Why should anybody spend tens of millions pounds on a fuckin football club? Just to please a section of entitled babies who stamp their feet and demand it NOW?

It's a business, he's attempting to make it sustainable in the long term.

21 teams won't go up this year. We'll probably be one of them. But at least we'll be one of with them with manageable debt and sellable assets.

There'll be plenty of that 21 that don't. And some of then will potentially be looking at points deductions or worse over the coming years

 

[Phantom of mobs]

It clearly wasn't like.

Name an easier task?

Why should anybody spend tens of millions pounds on a fuckin football club? Just to please a section of entitled babies who stamp their feet and demand it NOW?

It's a business, he's attempting to make it sustainable in the long term.

21 teams won't go up this year. We'll probably be one of them. But at least we'll be one of with them with manageable debt and sellable assets.

There'll be plenty of that 21 that don't. And some of then will potentially be looking at points deductions or worse over the coming years

Appointing Beale gave us a worse point deduction than for example Everton have had.

 

[PitYacker]

Why should anybody spend tens of millions pounds on a fuckin football club? Just to please a section of entitled babies who stamp their feet and demand it NOW?

It's a business, he's attempting to make it sustainable in the long term.

21 teams won't go up this year. We'll probably be one of them. But at least we'll be one of with them with manageable debt and sellable assets.

There'll be plenty of that 21 that don't. And some of then will potentially be looking at points deductions or worse over the coming years

Can the other 21 afford a plumber?

 

[Iain]

Posted this in another thread but thought it’s worth a post if it’s one. Yeah I know…

So I was thinking how much of a percentage of a wage do we as supporters pay on season tickets.

Say you earn £40k and buy two season tickets at say £1000 that’s 2.5% of your income spent every year to support the lads. That’s before everything else like merch, food etc. that’s also before tax, so technically the percentage should be higher. Also 40k is a decent whack for a lot of people, so some will put a higher proportion of their salary in than that.

On that basis if KLD was to invest the same, matching the above supporter, from his allotted wealth of c £2 billion, he would be investing a minimum of £50million a year into the club.

I’ve no idea how much he does put in, and no doubt he might not be able to put it in anyway but surely we can fix the PA and the bogs?

Your comparing a % of your yearly wage against KLDs entire fortune. Not really a valid comparison, unless he was making £2 billion a year, which he isn't.
So bit of a waste of a post