Burstow<McCoist

Shieldsman said:
The very large elephant in the room is the willingness of SAFC fans to write players off when they are aged 20 or less.

Semenyo had just turned 20 when he signed for us. Other than having pace, you're right, he looked nowhere near the finished article and struggled at this level. Fast forward 4 years and he's an accomplished PL centre-forward.

Burstow had also just turned 20 when he signed for us. I'm not quite sure on the assets he has to become a regular fixture in the PL however, I'm in no doubt that Chelsea scouts are far more capable at spotting promising players than I am. There's every chance, with another couple of years at this level, that he'll mature into a solid forward in the same way Semenyo has done so. Burstow was never going to be an Amad, a Stewart or even a Simms in his first full season at this level.

Along similar lines, there's a sizeable number who are having a pop at Ba. He was 19 when he signed for us and won't be 21 until the summer. He's got 60+ appearances. He's nowhere near the finished article but a segment of our fans have written him off. Nailed on, he'll spend the majority of his career in a top European league.

Jobe is the ultimate example. Again, there's too many fans, no doubt frustrated with the way the season has gone, who are writing him off. No-one knows where his best position is, not even him. HE'S EIGHTEEN AND IN HIS IN FIRST FULL SEASON FFS!!!!! He's got years of development ahead of him.

I could go on, Mayenda (18), Hemir, Seelt, Hjelde, Mundle all 20. Aouchiche and Pembele both 21. They'll all become better players than they currently are. The obvious issue, is that we field far too many of them at once, expecting it to click and become frustrated when it doesn't. A look around the other top two leagues in Europe reveals we're the youngest average squad by over an entire year. No club with an average age anywhere near ours is having notable success.
FWIW, this isn't a KS defence. He's overloaded the squad with bairns who MAY become real players.
The balance needs addressed in the summer.
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Couldnt have put it better myself đź‘Ť
 


Rogue Badger said:
Burstow reminds me more of a Jon Stead or an Ashley Fletcher type of forward. Fragile confidence and worries about missing too much. McCoist was a proper striker. If he missed a sitter he'd give himself a pat on the back for getting in the right position.
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Burstow makes Jon Stead look like Messi.
 
McCoists first appearance as sunb when he came on at ipswich and immediately made Mick Buckleys ( rip ) goal with a delightful lay-off showed he had a brain, something I've yet to see in Burstow- I hope for his own sake he comes good as he seems a nice kid
 
Shieldsman said:
The very large elephant in the room is the willingness of SAFC fans to write players off when they are aged 20 or less.

Semenyo had just turned 20 when he signed for us. Other than having pace, you're right, he looked nowhere near the finished article and struggled at this level. Fast forward 4 years and he's an accomplished PL centre-forward.

Burstow had also just turned 20 when he signed for us. I'm not quite sure on the assets he has to become a regular fixture in the PL however, I'm in no doubt that Chelsea scouts are far more capable at spotting promising players than I am. There's every chance, with another couple of years at this level, that he'll mature into a solid forward in the same way Semenyo has done so. Burstow was never going to be an Amad, a Stewart or even a Simms in his first full season at this level.

Along similar lines, there's a sizeable number who are having a pop at Ba. He was 19 when he signed for us and won't be 21 until the summer. He's got 60+ appearances. He's nowhere near the finished article but a segment of our fans have written him off. Nailed on, he'll spend the majority of his career in a top European league.

Jobe is the ultimate example. Again, there's too many fans, no doubt frustrated with the way the season has gone, who are writing him off. No-one knows where his best position is, not even him. HE'S EIGHTEEN AND IN HIS IN FIRST FULL SEASON FFS!!!!! He's got years of development ahead of him.

I could go on, Mayenda (18), Hemir, Seelt, Hjelde, Mundle all 20. Aouchiche and Pembele both 21. They'll all become better players than they currently are. The obvious issue, is that we field far too many of them at once, expecting it to click and become frustrated when it doesn't. A look around the other top two leagues in Europe reveals we're the youngest average squad by over an entire year. No club with an average age anywhere near ours is having notable success.
FWIW, this isn't a KS defence. He's overloaded the squad with bairns who MAY become real players.
The balance needs addressed in the summer.
Click to expand...
Like all things, it is balance.

Jobe is an excellent example and it really pisses me off when you see him branded as "utter shite", because it is just wrong. Early in the season we were excited about him and he looked a real exciting talent. The season is taking it's toll on him and you are right about his development. But the key thing is, we can see spells of something special there.

We can see the same from Rigg, we saw it with Henderson, Bridges, Pickford and now with his successor Patterson. All had mistakes in their early career and off games, but all had those moments that really made us sit up and pay attention. We should not be writing off players as "shite" from the mistakes they make when young.

But we have also seen plenty of young players who never made it and they didn't have that little bit extra that caught our attention. Look through our past squads, say from Gerry Harrison onwards and you have a long list of players who we did not rate and they did not achieve much after being with us.

Whenever I watch Rigg or Jobe, I see something there waiting to develop. Whenever I watch Burstow or Hemier I'm not seeing that at all. I can not think of any moments of the pair of them were we got excited, thought they were unlucky or said well done. Their season highlights video will be short. I really don't think we will be looking at either in 10 years time as a one who got away.

What I really don't see in Burstow is why we persist. I might be wrong and he might go on to be a great player in coming years, but it is clear he is not ready yet. What interest do we have in furthering that development and turning him into a player that is worth developing? We look a weaker team with him up front, but any experience he gets benefits Man City in the long run, not us.
 
Rambo Pumpkins said:
I was slightly too young to know the reasons he went, other than my dad said he just wasn't very good for us. Always assumed that he was just another Keiron Brady or Martin Smith, in that he had the potential but just squandered the chances when given.
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Haven't read the thread but I loved watching McCoist when I was a young lad at Roker Park. And as for Brady and Son of Pele, Burstow is miles away from being able to lace their boots at this stage.
 
Shieldsman said:
The very large elephant in the room is the willingness of SAFC fans to write players off when they are aged 20 or less.

Semenyo had just turned 20 when he signed for us. Other than having pace, you're right, he looked nowhere near the finished article and struggled at this level. Fast forward 4 years and he's an accomplished PL centre-forward.

Burstow had also just turned 20 when he signed for us. I'm not quite sure on the assets he has to become a regular fixture in the PL however, I'm in no doubt that Chelsea scouts are far more capable at spotting promising players than I am. There's every chance, with another couple of years at this level, that he'll mature into a solid forward in the same way Semenyo has done so. Burstow was never going to be an Amad, a Stewart or even a Simms in his first full season at this level.

Along similar lines, there's a sizeable number who are having a pop at Ba. He was 19 when he signed for us and won't be 21 until the summer. He's got 60+ appearances. He's nowhere near the finished article but a segment of our fans have written him off. Nailed on, he'll spend the majority of his career in a top European league.

Jobe is the ultimate example. Again, there's too many fans, no doubt frustrated with the way the season has gone, who are writing him off. No-one knows where his best position is, not even him. HE'S EIGHTEEN AND IN HIS IN FIRST FULL SEASON FFS!!!!! He's got years of development ahead of him.

I could go on, Mayenda (18), Hemir, Seelt, Hjelde, Mundle all 20. Aouchiche and Pembele both 21. They'll all become better players than they currently are. The obvious issue, is that we field far too many of them at once, expecting it to click and become frustrated when it doesn't. A look around the other top two leagues in Europe reveals we're the youngest average squad by over an entire year. No club with an average age anywhere near ours is having notable success.
FWIW, this isn't a KS defence. He's overloaded the squad with bairns who MAY become real players.
The balance needs addressed in the summer.
Click to expand...
Very good and valid point, the issue is that we have been forced to rely on these kids 100% as there is no-one else to throw in.

They should be used last 20-30.mins in a game where they can grow and develop at their own pace alongside more experienced players rather than be thrown to the lions somewhat...this issue surely lies with the recruitment team as tbf all of the managers that we have had this season have had no other option.
 
I liked Ally, badly wanted him to do well but he certainly didn't look like he'd end up scoring for fun at Rangers.

I think we bought him for ÂŁ375K and sold him for ÂŁ200K. I think that sums up his time here. Not terrible but not what we'd hope for given the large fee in those days.
 
Rambo Pumpkins said:
I was slightly too young to know the reasons he went, other than my dad said he just wasn't very good for us. Always assumed that he was just another Keiron Brady or Martin Smith, in that he had the potential but just squandered the chances when given.
Click to expand...
Durban wanted Bracewell, who he’d developed at Stoke.

Cowie was a tight arsed chairman who wanted to balance the spending, so the Bracewell purchase was financed by selling the under performing McCoist.

In true Sunderland fashion we then lost Bracewell after only one excellent season - to fund Len Ashurst’s multiple signings.

Very similar to how Bruce squandered the Henderson money
 
JL1985 said:
Burstow lacks the desire, he seems too nice and gentle. I'd love to see him really fired up and angry on the pitch.
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Both him & Hemir look like they are intimidated to easily. Why can’t they see that they are on last chance saloon & put a bit more aggression & willingness into it. They are on a football pitch with other pros FFS, what’s the worse that can happen? It’s not like they are in a dodgy council estate local match.
 
Rambo Pumpkins said:
When I was a kid I struggled to get my head around the fact that we had McCoist, but let him go and he obviously went on to do great things for Rangers.

We've seen it a few times now, where someone who looks like a donkey for us, then goes on to become a worldie, and I would wonder if someone like Burstow might fall into that? He clearly has something both Speakman and Chelsea have seen, that isn't translating, and I wonder if he's just at the wrong stage of his career.

Thoughts?

Any other ones from this crop or ones recently departed that will go on to a stellar career? My money is on Benette or Michut.
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Which players have been donkeys here and went on to become a worldie?
 
Qwerty said:
Which players have been donkeys here and went on to become a worldie?
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Jason Steele didn't do to badly.

I could compare Burstow to say, a traffic cone without the concrete base? A wrought iron gate with a hole big enough for a human to pass through? A shopping trolley stuck in the river wear? T6he only minutes "Mace" needs are behind the counter at Domino's.
 

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